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#31 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 7:59 am
by Daniel Quinn
Pre im beginning to think you aren’t very intelligent .

Just for you , the point of my swearing was to prove you can’t absolve yourself by saying you aren’t meaning something and then doing it . Ie no criticism followed by swearing .

Mr moose uses it as a rhetorical devise frequently .

#32 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 9:44 am
by pre65
Daniel Quinn wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:59 am
Pre, I'm beginning to think you aren’t very intelligent .
How perceptive you are. :wink:

#33 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 12:18 pm
by chris661
"I heard that herbs/spices make my food taste nicer, so I put 1lb of chilli powder into my next meal. I didn't like it, so I won't season my food in the future."

#34 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 12:22 pm
by Daniel Quinn
I’ve tried every measurement of chilli

And then I tried a lot of herbs and spices .

I have For the past 12 months lived with a midrange crossover

#35 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 9:04 pm
by Scottmoose
Daniel Quinn wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:59 am
Just for you , the point of my swearing was to prove you can’t absolve yourself by saying you aren’t meaning something and then doing it . Ie no criticism followed by swearing .

Mr moose uses it as a rhetorical devise frequently .
You appear to be suffering from a minor memory lapse, since my first post stated (and I went out of my way to state, for the sake of clarity):
'observation, no criticism intended
Which rather contradicts your subsequent statements of intended insult. Still, as noted, if it makes you happy to invent non-existent insults to take offense about, power to you.

#36 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:37 am
by Daniel Quinn
Anybody help me understand the illogical,irrelevant ramblings of mr moose.

I can’t for the life of me understand what he is going on about or why he thinks it’s germane

I love nothing better than an exchange of views but he is beyond me

#37 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:46 am
by pre65
A large number of us know Scott in person.

To you, he's just a man (albeit a clever man) on the internet.

When I was young my parents told me "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything". Take heed, this IS a friendly forum, please don't spoil it .

From what I have read Scott is trying to give you good advice.

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#38 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 12:12 pm
by Daniel Quinn
Those that ignore history are condemned to repeat the past .

#39 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 12:29 pm
by pre65
Daniel Quinn wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 12:12 pm Those that ignore history are condemned to repeat the past .
Quite probably, but being a bit thick can you explain to me the relevance of that quote to this topic please ? :?

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#40 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 4:46 pm
by Scottmoose
I can't comment on that myself, since I haven't a clue what he's on about either, but the entire point of my first post, which he seems to have inadvertently missed, was to:

a/ Point out that nobody can actually say what 'should' be heard (per the thread title) since we all have different hearing, and if you treat all speakers in exactly the same way, they won't behave (or sound) the same either, so in both cases, you're stuffed as far as generalising goes. And

b/ To lend a modicum of support to the approach. Method is ultimately just method. If you enjoy doing what you do and are happy with the end results, isn't that the point?

As an aside, it's worth remembering that many of us have played around with variations on the theme of twin dissimilar wideband drive units (or sometimes a large midbass / woofer partnered with a smaller wideband) run sans filtering except occasionally a low-pass inductor on the larger unit to reduce midband interference. Basically an extreme version of what's being described here. If you pick the drivers carefully, it can work surprisingly well.

#41 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:11 pm
by Daniel Quinn
The point of my post (indeed the point of 90% of my posts) was to ask those who know more than me what I should listen for that would show me the folly of not using a x over. So I could learn either way .

You may think me unkind but I think the only point of your post was to enhance your guru status. I don’t require your synopsis of the debate or your opinion on the success or otherwise of my stance .

You may think it is a ridiculous question without knowing drivers and box ,then just say so , god knows I ask enough ridiculous questions

#42 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:33 pm
by pre65
Daniel Quinn wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:11 pm
The point of my post was to ask those who know more than me what I should listen for that would show me the folly of not using a x over. So I could learn either way .
In an earlier post Nick explained that finding the ideal crossover for a combination of drive units and cabinet sizes and port dimension's (if ported) was almost impossible to do by trial and error.

If it were me, I would want to use some sort of software to input all the different parameters of the existing speakers and then use the calculated crossover as a comparison to the no crossover option. Perhaps you don't have the Theil - Small parameters for your current drivers ?

Try referring back to Nicks post and read it again .

It would be so easy to just ignore you, but there is a lot of REAL expertise amongst forum members, so at least consider what is said, even if you suspect it's an anathema.

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#43 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:39 pm
by Daniel Quinn
I think you’ll find the first six or so posts were top grade then the thread was derailed an idiot and an ego having a go at me for thier own reasons

#44 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:50 pm
by pre65
Daniel Quinn wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:39 pm I think you’ll find the first six or so posts were top grade then the thread was derailed an idiot and an ego having a go at me for their own reasons
Be honest Dennis, you've had it in for Scott for a long while.

This goes back to when Richard Dunn was alive, and both of you took great delight in vilifying Scott because Richard's thoughts (which you still seem to share) were totally opposed to Scotts speaker design processes.


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#45 Re: What should I hear?

Posted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:53 pm
by IslandPink
Going back to the original subject , this dilemma of crossovers slopes, or no crossover, is a classic ( is it classic ? ) trade-off between phase errors and amplitude errors. A low-order or zero crossover is going to have better phase integration ( I think we are talking about a 2-way ? ) which will tend to give more dynamics and tonal colour in the region of crossover, but will expose the music to any lumps/bumps/spikes particularly in the mid/woof response.
So you might like the sound for a while but then find it grating on too many things... or not ....depending on your taste.
Typical things like upper vocal tones, harmony vocals or massed vocals will tend to suffer. I've lived with a number of the Fostex FR drivers and you find yourself trying to block out regular wince-inducing resonances, sometimes it's on guitar notes, for instance.
I don't know how you can run a tweeter with anything less than a first-order HP crossover, they sound bad and it's a technical risk anyway.

RD used this approach but I know he went further in 'treating' the mid-bass speakers than I would like ( to tame resonances and adapt them better to sealed enclosure. I felt there were detriments to the tone in the upper vocal region, from short listening.