Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

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karatestu
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#151 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by karatestu »

Cressy Snr wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 pm
pre65 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:00 pm I must agree with something Paul B said earlier.

At Owston in the past, at least half of the music played is not to my taste at all, and makes evaluating the kit a problem.

Before anyone else says, I dare say what I do like is not to everyone's taste either. :lol:
I certainly concur there Phil but not in terms of the music played. A good system should be able to play anything thrown at it from whatever era without batting an eyelid and it is a person’s right to play what they like. Whether you personally like the music or not is to my mind irrelevant. The question I ask myself when trying to evaluate a system is ‘does the system communicate? Does it move me to want to boogie? Does it move me emotionally, if it is for example a piece of classical or choral, or deep soul, power ballad, driving rock or whatever.

The barrier for me at yesterday’s event and at all others, including without exception, every commercial show I’ve ever attended in the past, is the sheer unadulterated bloody volume. It drives me crazy. Many people and I’m not knocking them for it, go all out for the absolute sound, ie the illusion of the band in the room, whipcrack dynamics, blistering transient speed, jump factor and the rest of it. It’s certainly a noble quest.

There were lashings of speed, dynamics and jump factor yesterday; spectacularly so in fact: Ultra-Fi by the shedload and why not? It was sock blowoffery of the highest calibre and it was too much for my sensitive, foppish disposition. My ideas about what makes a good sonic experience seem to be diametrically opposed to what is considered the norm in the modern world of hi-fi; so much so that I often wonder if I fit with the beat all. I appear to be stuck in the mid 70s golden age. Nevertheless I wouldn’t miss Owston for the world.

My own sonic tastes mean that my gear can barely raise more than a whisper at a venue no matter what I build or bring because whipcrack dynamics and concert hall volume don’t interest me in the slightest, neither does in-your-face excitement. That sort of caper is incompatible with a tiny room, but a low-coloration presentation and an easy, unfatiguing vibe most certainly is. The BBC small broadcast monitor sound IOW. If I could afford them I would go for a Harbeth/Spendor/LS3-5A type speaker without hesitation. The big Mets were the nearest I got to that ideal using my own hands, and I’m glad they went to a good home.

What a stroke of luck then, that Ray was so kind as to donate those slightly knocked about, 30 year old Mission 773 mini tower floorstanders to my little collection of speakers. These have proved to be the answer to my prayers. The old school British, pre Linn/Naim hi fi sound, free gratis and for nothing. Sometimes you plug in a pair of speakers and things just click into place. It doesn’t happen often, but when it does, you damn’ well take notice. These unassuming little towers are spot on for my own tastes and listening environment. They work a treat with both the valve and the NVA based solid state amps. Couldn’t ask for more really.
Bloody good post Steve (apart from the BBC bit obviously :D). Never been to any of these gatherings but I would be thinking just like you. Too bloody loud. I like to kick back and relax at a sensible volume. Can't do that with David Lee Roth shouting at me to jump all the bloody time.

Glad you all enjoyed it BTW.
:bigsmurf:
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Thermionic Idler
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#152 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Thermionic Idler »

Just a quick post to let you all know I got back safely last night, despite the best efforts of traffic jams and a biblical thunderstorm on the M40 north of Oxford.

I was simply too shattered to post anything, just about had enough energy to unload the van as it had to be back at Southern Self Drive by 8am this morning.

I've got to log on to work now but will post more later.
Deck: Garrard 301 - Audio Origami PU7 - NW Analogue DH3S
Phono: Pete Millett LR, Lundahl SUT, AMB σ22 PSU
Linestage: Bruno Putzeys Balanced Pre + Hans Polak relay mod, LCDuino control
Power amps: 300B PP 'Symmetric Reichert'
Speakers: FF225WK Big Mets
Michael L
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#153 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Michael L »

[quote="Cressy Snr" post_id=199906 time=1666563316 user_id=14]
[quote=pre65 post_id=199903 time=1666558810 user_id=95]


Cressy Snr wrote

The barrier for me at yesterday’s event and at all others, including without exception, every commercial show I’ve ever attended in the past, is the sheer unadulterated bloody volume. It drives me crazy. Many people and I’m not knocking them for it, go all out for the absolute sound, ie the illusion of the band in the room, whipcrack dynamics, blistering transient speed, jump factor and the rest of it. It’s certainly a noble quest.


Well the answer is to control your own exposure. I too find volume levels are often uncomfortable just as I did attending rock concerts as a teen. Then and now I stuff tissue paper in my ears. I wonder how many people at shows like the Wam one I attended a couple of weeks back suffer from hearing loss. I see bikers now use earplugs to limit exposure.
My hearing's still pretty good, though my wife might dispute that. Unfortunately I can hear next door's yappy dog only too well.
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#154 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by steve s »

Thanks all for making it a great weekend.
The quality of everything that was brought was at the very least impressive.. and to my view everything was worth listening too...So thank you

Listening this weekend brought it home to me how important the amplifier is.. it can be a deal breaker or maker in the overall sound of a system, sometimes its the subtleties that you dont hear in isolation become apparent when there's comparisons.

A fair % of the kit at the wam show was much louder than this weekend,
Owston is a big enough room that needs at least a couple of watts to get a realistic sound..😃

All being well next years meet will be 21/22 Oct.. so get that in your calendar !
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#155 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Andrew »

A great day on Saturday, once again thanks to Steve for organizing :)

The general standard of the kit gets better with every passing year!
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#156 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by brig001 »

I enjoyed the weekend - thanks Steve for organising

I agree about the loudness, and sad that I tried to match it. I should have played quieter as there was no way that 2 x three inch drivers were going to compete with a pair of 18s. I think they did OK on the first two tracks, but once they tried to play bass it was game over
On a brighter note, I have a plan to get a bit more bass out of them, so they might do better next year

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Mike H
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#157 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Mike H »

All fabarootie! :thumbright:

How did the catering arrangments at The Lodge work out after all?
 
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#158 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by steve s »

I'd brought my refurbished decca ffss mk1 with me and set it up on the Saturday evening, it sounded dreadful


I drove home quizzing myself if when I'd tested it at home had it sounded as bad as that.

I woke the next morning and remembered that the volume control had sounded not as good as it could have when I'd built it, but I'd blamed the carbon pot I'd used.
Sunday morning it turned out both nick and Ali had solutions too.

Anyway placing nicks music 1st pre between my phono and the power amp input on the mofo amp had me smiling again.. I was really pleased with the sound it was beautifully detailed with a nice open and rhythmic sound.
Well worth bringing along

And I also was pleased my ears hadn't tricked me when I 1st tested it !
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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Ray P
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#159 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Ray P »

chris661 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:40 pm Shure SRH1540.
Thanks Chris.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
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Thermionic Idler
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#160 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Thermionic Idler »

Fantastic weekend, well worth the long(!) drive there and back. I finally arrived at Owston Hall after 240 miles of Friday night traffic, and joined Nick and Ali (and briefly a couple of 'golfists') in the bar until way past my bedtime.

Great day on the Saturday, this was the first time I'd demonstrated an (almost) complete system. Having borrowed Nick's TVC and turntable (thank you Nick), I could not help but notice that the sound of the system was back to exactly where it was before I utterly ruined my linestage mucking about with switched mode power. Overall, I was very pleased with its performance on the day but there were a couple of caveats...

The Millett phono stage sounded pretty spot on, but I think I've commented before that sometimes its top end could sound a bit shut in. I'd ended up compensating for this by adjusting the L-pads on the Mets, but of course that means the treble is too hot for accurate sources. I should have readjusted it when Steve's amp was playing, it is possible the L-pad settings might have done it a disservice.

We tried the Millett again on the Sunday morning after Nick's phono stage, with the TVC, Ali's amp whose name escapes me, and Nick's Quasars. That slightly shut-in quality was back, and I've now heard this with two different cartridges into the 1:16 / 150 Ohm stepup setting, and a previous 1:8 step-up as well. So I'm planning to build or obtain a reverse-RIAA circuit (I don't think the Hagerman is accurate enough) as I have yet to measure it, I think there is a definite droop going on at the high end that is robbing the sound of air and space.

Agreed about the playback volume, I did wonder on a couple of occasions whether I had set mine too loud or not. I think I overdid it slightly on the Monks LP. One of the reasons I wanted to have my own linestage is that it has remote control, allowing the level to be fine-tuned from the audience position to that which I listen to at home. I do find that getting playback level right is actually quite critical, almost like bringing things into focus, which is why I always want the ability to adjust it from the listening position.

For me, my favourite speakers of the day were Brian's Ikea salad bowl creations - I think those are utterly inspired. Other highlights were Ed's triangular builds which just sounded 'right' with the F2's, and Steve's (vinylnvalves) horn drivers - that's the first time I've heard speakers shaped like that which didn't sound like speakers shaped like that - I *really* liked those, I must say.

Big thanks to Steve S for organising it, Ant for bringing me the big Lenco, and to Chris for lending a hand carrying my boat anchor 300B's to the van and back, and also for doing some detailed response measurements on the Mets on Sunday, giving me some further food for thought. I do not think any major tweaks are necessary (there's a reason I've not touched them in 6 years of ownership) but the graphs do indicate that there might be some benefit to experimenting with a mild low-pass on the FF225WK, even though the black-tack moderates the upper mids and highs to some extent. But that is quite a ways down the priority list, I need to make sure the signal going into the things is as good as it can be before I start mucking about with crossovers.

The journey home was interesting, the M40 between the A43 and A34 was one big queue, but this coincided with an absolutely biblical thunderstorm so I was quite glad to be only doing 5mph. Then when I got home it was pouring with rain again, getting late, and the van had to be back at the hire place by 8am Monday. We managed to dart out between the showers and get everything into the house, although currently the Mets are in the downstairs kitchen and the amps are on a big table in the hall.
Deck: Garrard 301 - Audio Origami PU7 - NW Analogue DH3S
Phono: Pete Millett LR, Lundahl SUT, AMB σ22 PSU
Linestage: Bruno Putzeys Balanced Pre + Hans Polak relay mod, LCDuino control
Power amps: 300B PP 'Symmetric Reichert'
Speakers: FF225WK Big Mets
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#161 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Cressy Snr »

Thermionic Idler wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:02 pm
….The Millett phono stage sounded pretty spot on, but I think I've commented before that sometimes its top end could sound a bit shut in. I'd ended up compensating for this by adjusting the L-pads on the Mets, but of course that means the treble is too hot for accurate sources. I should have readjusted it when Steve's amp was playing, it is possible the L-pad settings might have done it a disservice.
No worries Dave. I should have twigged what was happening and stopped my dem when the Jimmy Copley track (the first one I played) sounded like it could have stripped the wallpaper off at thirty paces. I know the Mets, knew something was up and I failed to do something about it. Only myself to blame.

But at least my amp ‘has potential’ so all is not lost (cheeky bastard Paul) :mrgreen:

Your 300B push pull did of course outclass the Heretik and so it bloody well ought to have given the superb circuit design and the quality of the components and the iron. It made my babies sing. :love4:
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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#162 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by IslandPink »

Thanks for bringing all that up for us to hear, Dave. The system had some magic for sure. I'm sure the phono amp plays a big part.

Thanks to Steve yet again for organising and being intermittent compère.

Like many I thought there was great music coming out of Ed's Triangle Towers, particularly with the F2.
Liked the AMT horns and tweeters from Steve, there was some good colour ( ie. tone ) from those.
I'm still not enamoured with the sound of big cones in big boxes, and how the integration to horn works on male vocals, but I know that Steve has further plans on the way.
I arrived when Ray was playing his ( one of ? ) DAC through Nick's amps/speakers and that impressed me, owing to the tone and texture on strings, which is often a struggle for most DACs.
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#163 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by Ali Tait »

Dave, my amp is a Neurochrome Modulus 86- https://neurochrome.com/collections/pow ... modulus-86

World-class sound (IMO) for next to nowt. And you can pick it up with one hand. :D

Thanks again to Steve for organising, it was a great weekend. Loved the Decca Steve, first time I've heard one and I now see what all the fuss is about. I will have to get that C4E I've got tucked away off to John Wright!

It's all been said really, great sounds all round. Those Purifi drivers in Mark's monitors I thought very special and with a lot of potential. Dave's 300b's sounded lovely, as did Ed's setup- as others have said, it just sounded right. There was a lot right about the big horns too, enjoyed those.

Roll on the next one!
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IslandPink
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#164 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by IslandPink »

Oh I missed mentioning your amp Ali, which did sound very good when put into Nick's system. Very interesting...
"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
vinylnvalves
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#165 Re: Owston meet, Doncaster, 22&23 Oct 22

Post by vinylnvalves »

IslandPink wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:28 pm Thanks for bringing all that up for us to hear, Dave. The system had some magic for sure. I'm sure the phono amp plays a big part.

Thanks to Steve yet again for organising and being intermittent compère.

Like many I thought there was great music coming out of Ed's Triangle Towers, particularly with the F2.
Liked the AMT horns and tweeters from Steve, there was some good colour ( ie. tone ) from those.
I'm still not enamoured with the sound of big cones in big boxes, and how the integration to horn works on male vocals, but I know that Steve has further plans on the way.
I arrived when Ray was playing his ( one of ? ) DAC through Nick's amps/speakers and that impressed me, owing to the tone and texture on strings, which is often a struggle for most DACs.
Is a speaker having "tone" positive thing :) Unfortunately in that room you need cone area to fill the room in the bottom end. I would rather have left the big supravox cabinets at home ( had to cut them down to fit them in the car) but last years OB attempt wasn't successful. I liked Ed's speakers - that Seas driver was impressive in the midrange. Ed was very brave to play a Robert Plant track with its unnatural industrial bass. If Chris had played that track we would have all had ringing in our ears - luckily most of us cannot replicate it fully. :lol:
A big thank to Chris for helping me equalise the system to the room ( took 6 db off the bottom end when set it up at home yesterday. I need to sort out my digital player for next year - so i dont have to reply on what CD's are in the glovebox, also the I2S input sounds alot better too. I did play the Les Claypool track specially for DtB, shame the threat of Genesis kept him away.
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