audio-talk

Paul Barker wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:02 pm What we say in gas fitter talk is lined up “best endeavour”

Well, you are the one worrying about it...

it's an interesting field...every time I think about it I get distracted thinking about Mr Putin's mental state..however, this is Harry's take on it and it may, or may not, take the conversation a little further:

www.vitalstates.org/diy/misc/ho_source.pdf

forgive the change in font size....I scanned a couple of pages and couldn't align for a pdf page...I hope I haven't infringed any copyright.

Nick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:22 pm

once the membranes of all the drivers lined up

Given that anything with a cone is not flat, what do you take take as the datum point?

On that day nick, half way between the back and the front of the cone seemed logical

At least that way you’ve got a compromise between both camps.

I try Bruce camp. His voicing was spot on. Singer was in 3D and very really there. So no odd phase misalignment….. I’m sure he said the position was at the compression driver.

Yep the clue is the compression driver. So no cone.

Just bear in mind that if you are mixing mass-loaded cone drivers with a horn or a ribbon tweeter, the motion of the membrane in the ribbon, and the horn diaphragm, is in phase with the driving signal ; whereas a cone driver's motion lags the driving signal by 90° ie. lambda/4 ; this being most relevant to check for the crossover frequency.
This means that a cone driver might need to be set in front of the driver on the horn, by several inches.

If a bigger horn uses a cone driver, it's usually be a strong magnet and light cone, and the cone will therefore be more or less in phase with the driving signal, as per a compression driver.

Thank you

Watching with interest - yep I've had Steve's Big Mets for years now, IMO they are right up there with the serious stuff and have easily kept pace with the various upgrades I've made to the electronics over the years.

IslandPink wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:01 pm Just bear in mind that if you are mixing mass-loaded cone drivers with a horn or a ribbon tweeter, the motion of the membrane in the ribbon, and the horn diaphragm, is in phase with the driving signal ; whereas a cone driver's motion lags the driving signal by 90° ie. lambda/4 ; this being most relevant to check for the crossover frequency.
This means that a cone driver might need to be set in front of the driver on the horn, by several inches.

If a bigger horn uses a cone driver, it's usually be a strong magnet and light cone, and the cone will therefore be more or less in phase with the driving signal, as per a compression driver.

My thinking box is a bit slow at the moment, Im not kidding, not recovered from my fall by a long margin. As I stand not sure I’ll work again. Just said it to set the scene for why some of the contributions I’ve not seen the importance of straight away.

Im not saying it all makes sense between my cloth ears, but there are hints Ive missed which could grow to make some pieces of the puzzle fit, and youre post Ive quoted is a piece that fits at the moment. Its a shame that I didnt record Bruce talking, because his reasons would have been very slowly, in a very long one way conversation in which he went right down to the micro level about every aspect of his Titans that remember were stood there playing better than any other speakers Ive heard so far. Even what Jonathons 45 amp did with the Quasars at the end of one Eggborough session, were bettered by Titans.

I cant remember what he said about alignment but like every other micro-detail it was obviously important.

I might have gleaned what youre saying Mark is also the reason why it often works to put super tweeters on opposite phase to cone speakers. But its not a 180 degree difference, so if you do that to infinitesimal detail as everything Bruce spoke of he explained (but Ive forgotten some explanations), which is why Steve didnt position his drivers such as amt at the cone of cone drivers, but somewhere along the horn path, adjust on test I guess.

I cant see the taper of the metronomes facilitating the use of decca ribbons anyway, so if they work, or even if I buy a ribbon kit for them as required, they couldnt be orientated for the broader hearing path, as theyd have to go vertically mounted on the side with forward backward adjustment for phase (if I can even judge that with my perception, which arent golden ears, and never were). But the angle of dispertion would make them a one listener in the sweet spot at a time. Oh Waili waily, to borrow Ed’s phrase again.

Anyway a summary is that with the celestian tweeters they sound very good at home to my cloth ears. The cheap compression tweeters tick some new boxes but damage too much else. Especially the drop dead gorgeous experience of how well the celestians voice.

Might have to make plasma tweeters. Ive heard those in my friends house who has HIV from USA prisoners blood when he was a child haemophiliac. So hes out of bounds as hes also my age, and anyone following that scandal will know most of that generation have now died and successive governments have, now I can be cynical, waited for the majority to die before compensating the remainder, which is now very few and still not compensated. But his Timetec youtube channel has the examples. Ive been there and heard his various efforts, and plasma has leggs. its up there with Bruce.

Ive just spotted the mis spelling in the title. Sorry folks.