Wood pellet stove.

Subjects that don't have their own home
User avatar
andrew Ivimey
Social Sevices have been notified
Posts: 8307
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

#16 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Bit like wines from N.Z. Australia, S.Africa and Chile etc etc etc.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4374
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#17 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Ali Tait »

karatestu wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:07 am I know the owners of a local estate who have a large pellet boiler. The pellets they use are imported from Germany FFS. Has nobody heard of climate change? This method of heating is viewed as relatively green but how can it be when the fuel is doing so many miles to reach point of use.
Before Drax power station closed down, they were importing coal from Venezuela and Australia. It burned 36,000 tons a day. Crazy.
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#18 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by vinylnvalves »

I thought most wood pellets were coming from the USA. Wood pellets are no longer a byproduct of the wood working industry, good timber is being cut to make pellets. You might as well buy coal it’s as green. Whilst the cost to transport is low the tariff for bringing stuff around the world wont be significant. Whilst goods are on ships it’s not too bad - when it’s flown, like green beans and other short life commodities like fish ( Salmon and kippers to the USA) it’s not ethical in my books.
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15707
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#19 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Nick »

You might as well buy coal it’s as green
Not sure what green means in your context, but in terms of CO2 its clearly not true (ignoring transportation, which given Ali's comment about Drax we can).
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
User avatar
pre65
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 21373
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.

#20 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by pre65 »

Ali Tait wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:24 am
karatestu wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:07 am I know the owners of a local estate who have a large pellet boiler. The pellets they use are imported from Germany FFS. Has nobody heard of climate change? This method of heating is viewed as relatively green but how can it be when the fuel is doing so many miles to reach point of use.
Before Drax power station closed down, they were importing coal from Venezuela and Australia. It burned 36,000 tons a day. Crazy.
Do you mean Drax Ali ?

As far as I know Drax currently get many trainloads of Biomass every day, all imported of course.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#21 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by vinylnvalves »

All fossil fuels generally give off the same C02 when burnt, it’s just we make ourselves feel better by offsetting the CO2 against living trees, as a fallen tree that rots gives off the same amount of C02. The traditional firewood which came from pollarding and fallen problem trees which needed removing was seen as carbon neutral. When we start cutting forests down for firewood it’s no longer neutral, as a sapling planted doesn’t absorb the same amount of CO2 as the big tree that cut down. Add the drying costs and processing costs of wood pellets which are no longer a byproduct of the timber industry and it’s not that green.

I do see a glimmer of hope in the energy situation, it looks like green hydrogen is on the cards. So what goes around comes around, gas ships again coming from Africa this time with hydrogen to the Isle of Grain, to feed our gas network. I do wonder where they will put the gas monitors around the country- as they have built houses where they used to be. Maybe with the big wind farm off the east coast, they can generate some green hydrogen with the surplus - for Phil :D
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15707
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#22 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Nick »

as a sapling planted doesn’t absorb the same amount of CO2 as the big tree that cut down.
It would if its allowed to grow to the same size. Your argument seems to be that because its not 100% its 0%. 50% is still better than 0%

The simple form of the argument is take two buckets with 10L of water in. In the first add another 1L. In the second add 1L and remove 0.5L you are arguing that both buckets have more water in than before, therefor the two buckets have the same amount of water.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#23 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by vinylnvalves »

Time is the factor in all of this. Big trees absorb CO2 now, yes a sapling will absorb CO2 in the future. This is why biomass is very quick growing stuff, willow etc which is harvested on a short growth cycle, so the effect in the time period is neutral. We just shouldn’t be cutting good trees down for firewood. It’s us Engineers who are at fault - we shouldn’t have invented the chainsaw or machines which take a tree down in less than 60 seconds - which would have taken 4 men a day to do. Whether we can engineer our way out of this remains to be seen....

The big question unanswered was why Phil wanted a wood pellet stove in the first place?
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15707
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#24 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Nick »

so the effect in the time period is neutral.
That was my point
We just shouldn’t be cutting good trees down for firewood.
Agreed but a different point
You might as well buy coal it’s as green.
That was the bit I disagreed with, whatever we do, releasing CO2 that was trapped millennia ago is not helpful. Releasing CO2 from 100 years ago is not great, but still better.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
User avatar
pre65
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 21373
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.

#25 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by pre65 »

vinylnvalves wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:03 am
The big question unanswered was why Phil wanted a wood pellet stove in the first place?
Mainly because I don't want the problems that using my wood burning stove gives me.

Pellet stove advantages (for me)

1) Controllability, being able to set a working temperature and the timer option for coming on before I get up.

2) My wood in my shed is mainly suitable for kindling, anything of size for burning would have to be purchased, and stored. Pellet storage would be easier for me.

3) Convenience of a full pellet hopper lasting a whole day.

The stove would only be used for (probably) 3-4 months of the year in my living room to supplement the oil fired central heating. BIG disadvantage is needing a mains power supply when winter power cuts occur.

*
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#26 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by vinylnvalves »

Similar reasons to my mother in law with her stove. Hers is a multifuel stove, so she now uses a mixture of wood and smokeless ovals( posh coal). She can add the ovals to the stove and it will go all night. Her logic is she only has maybe 10 years max left on her mortal coil, and the consequences of having a new stove will generate more co2 than burning a small amount of coal in winter. That could be an alternative and you don’t need a new stove, if its a multi-fuel of course. Only advantage box not ticked is the timer option.
karatestu
User
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:34 pm
Location: Leeds/York

#27 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by karatestu »

All my wood comes from my six acre wild life area and some tree surgery jobs I do as a sideline. I burn it on my stove rather than let it rot sonewhere. Chipping it is a huge waste of fuel and time and not environmentally friendly in lots of ways. I use as much of the tree as possible by logging it all down to about 1" in diameter.

My six acre wildlife area was a relatively unproductive wet arable field that I took out of production and planted many trees in and dug a large pond. This was all at my cost and I didn't claim any subsidy. This started 23 years ago and I have coppiced quite a few trees as they seem to be growing really fast due to the fertility and wetness. I use a professional batrery powered chainsaw (battery is on my back) to fell and log them up. I fell them when they are about 6" at the base so I don't have to split any of the wood. It's only selective felling not clear fell, thd odd tree here and there.

Anyway, the amount and diversity of wildlife in this field is amazing. Puts a big smile on my face seeing it and knowing I created it. It is my legacy and the achievement I am most proud of.
:bigsmurf:
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4374
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#28 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Ali Tait »

pre65 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:04 am
Ali Tait wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:24 am
karatestu wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:07 am I know the owners of a local estate who have a large pellet boiler. The pellets they use are imported from Germany FFS. Has nobody heard of climate change? This method of heating is viewed as relatively green but how can it be when the fuel is doing so many miles to reach point of use.
Before Drax power station closed down, they were importing coal from Venezuela and Australia. It burned 36,000 tons a day. Crazy.
Do you mean Drax Ali ?

As far as I know Drax currently get many trainloads of Biomass every day, all imported of course.
I’m talking about when it was coal fired. That system was closed years ago, they then converted to biomass.
User avatar
pre65
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 21373
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.

#29 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by pre65 »

Wood Stove vs Pellet Stove (Which one is better for heating?)

A you tube video, quite a balanced argument.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#30 Re: Wood pellet stove.

Post by Neal »

Green hydrogen, there’s an oxymoron if ever I saw one :D
Only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Post Reply