Page 37 of 61

#541 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:38 pm
by steve s
brig001 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:30 pm
Greg wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:19 am I don’t expect to make savings on long journeys away from home. Rapid (Super)chargers are expensive yet convenient because the charging is done in the time it takes to have a toilet stop and pick up a coffee. The real savings are made day to day with local journeys and charging at home. My Octopus Go contract gives me four hours a night cheap electricity at 7.14p per kWh.
I suspected that the cost of the fast charge was the killer on that journey. Will be interesting to see how the pricing goes - you would expect it to get cheaper once the infrastructure and changer itself has been paid for
When we all started paying the green tariff on our household bills I think we all expected that there would be a long term benefit to costs

My guess is when there are enough electric cars I'd expect full vat on our electricity bills at least.
And what's going to replace fuel duty ?

#542 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:43 pm
by Nick
I find it amazing how designers focus in on one aspect (the implementation) without accepting the bigger picture.
But that's how progress works, you can design a resistor and someone else will design a capacitor. When you were working on your loudspeakers were you also designing and building a cartridge?

But the converse is also true. If they find its not possible to make it practical to run a JCB on H2, there is less point in spending time and money on working out the supply, storage and transportation issues.

#543 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:45 pm
by Nick
And what's going to replace fuel duty
I suspect some form of pay per mile charging. Though that would be regressive in that its not encouraging higher efficiency.

#544 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:04 pm
by shane
As the video says, JCBs requirements are rather different from those of the average motorist. A typical JCB machine uses about 100kw and unlike a car it will be running at near full power for long periods at a time. In order to run for a 12 hour shift that’s going to need 1200 kWh of batteries. AFAIK the 100kwh battery in a Tesla weighs about half a ton. It’s hard to see how a JCB could accommodate 6 tons of batteries, let alone how they would charge them up overnight on a building site. Hydrogen for them would appear to be the only viable green-at-the-point-of-use technology.

#545 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:18 pm
by Nick
Hydrogen for them would appear to be the only viable green-at-the-point-of-use technology.
Or synthetic fuel (just saying).

#546 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 pm
by pre65
Nick wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:18 pm
Hydrogen for them would appear to be the only viable green-at-the-point-of-use technology.
Or synthetic fuel (just saying).
Has synthetic gas oil (diesel) been developed, or are we talking about bio-diesel?

I do wonder why bio-diesel is not more widely used.

#547 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:57 pm
by Nick
The problem (IMHO) with bio diesel is the amount of land required to grow the source and the deforestation resulting.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/627684/porsc ... ction-911/
https://zeropetroleum.com/
https://totalenergies.com/media/news/pr ... alenergies

#548 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:58 pm
by ed
pre65 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 pm

I do wonder why bio-diesel is not more widely used.
is bio diesel any more environmentally friendly than normal diesel?

#549 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:03 pm
by Neal
Ugh, nobody got shot down :roll: Hydrogen for the mass car market, which I thought we where talking about, is not practical. Also that JCB video even mentions that fuel cells are too delicate and not appropriate. what JCB seem to have developed is an all new Hydrogen combustion engine. The BBC article is about a retrofit system to existing diesel combustion engines which is why I found it interesting, theres no need to buy new. Repurposing existing vehicles with the means to produce much lower emissions is a greener way forward than always building new.

#550 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:43 pm
by Max N
Zero Petroleum are producing synthetic fuels. Impressively they can tailor the fuel to suit existing engines. Paddy Lowe (ex-Williams) is involved.

#551 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:35 pm
by Nick
Last years Le Mans 24 Hour used only fuel made from Wine waste. The Total Energies link I posted above (which looking at it now makes the three links look like they are about bio-desel instead of synthetic fuel)

#552 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:16 pm
by steve s
Nick wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:35 pm Last years Le Mans 24 Hour used only fuel made from Wine waste. The Total Energies link I posted above (which looking at it now makes the three links look like they are about bio-desel instead of synthetic fuel)
I think I've drank wine that tasted like petrol..
And I've tasted enough petrol over the years syphoning to know..

#553 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:20 pm
by simon
I remember having a carton of Don Simon red wine in Spain 25 years ago. It was a quid. In a tetrapak type carton. Petrol tasted better.

#554 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:07 pm
by jack
ed wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:58 pm
pre65 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:31 pm

I do wonder why bio-diesel is not more widely used.
is bio diesel any more environmentally friendly than normal diesel?
I'm a currently looking at using HVO for my landrover and one of our other cars...

MOQ is 500ltrs, so will have to install a 1000ltr tank by our garage too .. very similar price to normal diesel, but a tiny fraction of the by-products. Don't yet know enough about the environmental cost of production, but one thing stands out: there's a lot of palm oil in there and that's not good at all. Apparently, you can specify non-palm oil HVO when ordering... I've yet to get pricing and availability on this

We've lived and worked in parts of the world where jungle has been removed for palm oil plantations (Malaysia & Borneo) and the rivers run red with soil washed away - the wildlife and ecosystems are destroyed. The plantations are short lived as the soil is nutrient poor, shallow and lacks structure - it erodes at a prodigious rate and leaves desolate landscapes devoid of life...

#555 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:51 pm
by Neal
Palm oil is a huge issue