Zero emission road vehicles.

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jack
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#511 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by jack »

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pre65
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#512 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by pre65 »

Neal wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:08 pm Hydrogen Hoax would be a good title for this. Another spot on video from Physicists Sabine…

Far from being a hoax, the video gives information (probably accurate) about problems that have to be overcome.

I still think Hydrogen will have a part to play in the future, possibly with HGV and the construction industry/farm machinery.
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#513 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Neal »

Did you not learn anything
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pre65
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#514 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by pre65 »

Neal wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:42 pm Did you not learn anything
Perhaps we are both biased, but in opposite directions. :?:
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rowuk
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#515 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by rowuk »

pre65 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:51 pm
Neal wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:08 pm Hydrogen Hoax would be a good title for this. Another spot on video from Physicists Sabine…

Far from being a hoax, the video gives information (probably accurate) about problems that have to be overcome.

I still think Hydrogen will have a part to play in the future, possibly with HGV and the construction industry/farm machinery.
Far from being a hoax. I would only offer: what technology was ever "economical" from the beginning? How long did it take valve or solid state amps to become "viable"? What about speakers? I am convinced that if our resource of brilliant minds can create tactical atomic power plants, they certainly can funnel some of that brilliance into replacing a known problem with carbon based fuels. Maybe we are too mobile? maybe we do not need foods from all over the planet around the clock and around the calendar!
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#516 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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How long did it take valve or solid state amps to become "viable"
Not entirely sure what your point is, valve amps became viable the moment it was possible to manufacture valves in sufficient quantities. Not long.

In 1904, John Ambrose Fleming invented the first practical electron tube called the 'Fleming Valve'. Leming invents the vacuum tube diode.

In 1920, RCA began the first commercial electron tube manufacturing.

And the same thing happened with the transistor. But the point to notice is that the transistor replaced the valve as soon as it was able.
I am convinced that if our resource of brilliant minds can create tactical atomic power plants, they certainly can funnel some of that brilliance into replacing a known problem with carbon based fuels.
And I hope so to, but we don't need multiple solutions in the same way valves didn't have to wait for transistors before valves could be used. I think its clear that:

1. H2 is a solution for some of the problems that replacing fossil fuels has, in particular airtravel and shipping.
2. H2 also has a load of problems waiting to be solved, they may be solved, or they may only need solving so that the problems in 1 can be solved
3. H2 has a particular problem that in just about every case making the stuff without using fossil fuels is inefficient, and if made from renewable energy sources there will be a step in the process that involves generating electricity. Storage and transport is still a unsolved problem at scale.
4. Electricity can solve just about all the problems that are not in 1, and it solves the storage and transport problems that H2 has.
5. The type of process that makes H2 can also make synthetic fuels and similar efficiency given the renewable energy sources that are also needed to make H2
6. Synthetic fuels also can solve the airtravel and shipping problems without involving the problems that using H2 bring. Storage and transport of Synthetic fuels is already a solved problem as its the same solution as petrol.
Perhaps we are both biased, but in opposite directions.
Possible, but I don't understand the attraction of a bias towards H2 other that assuming there is a bias against EV's and the bias towards H2 is seen as a way of doing something (exactly what I don't know).
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#517 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by ed »

2 things stand out for me in that video:
I didn't realise that Russia has the key to the rare components in the fuel cell. Look what happens when Russia has what we want.
and
Sabine makes my toes curl up. I hadn't seen her before. That old problem just wont go away.
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#518 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Neal »

pre65 wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:08 pm
Neal wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:42 pm Did you not learn anything
Perhaps we are both biased, but in opposite directions. :?:
Phil, there is no “bias” here just a practical realisation that Hydrogen in not the panacea you seem to believe it is or that is being marketed by those interested parties. There are so many insurmountable issues over producing it, transporting it and storage it simply does not make sense. The cells themselves may prove to be an even bigger issue as pointed out in the video.
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#519 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by vinylnvalves »

pre65 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:43 am Not quite on topic, but tentative tests by Rolls Royce in running jet engines on hydrogen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
We are only looking at it for industrial engines- no plan or mechanism to fly with it. Tanks of liquid hydrogen would make the passengers cold :D
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#520 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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vinylnvalves wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:21 am
pre65 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:43 am Not quite on topic, but tentative tests by Rolls Royce in running jet engines on hydrogen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63758937
We are only looking at it for industrial engines- no plan or mechanism to fly with it. Tanks of liquid hydrogen would make the passengers cold :D
Of course you test something to find if its suitable, it may be that the result of the test is no, its not. It seems that most of the x is testing y posts seem to be assuming the test will be positive, or is at least a positive thing for y.
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#521 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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#522 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Warning, they number of adverts and frames on that Daily Mirror page increased my computers electricity use so much it would have probably been enough to get to Exeter. Posting this on another machine as my normal PC is still locked up trying to display the page.
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#523 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Ali Tait »

Strange, doesn’t do that for me.
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#524 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Ali Tait »

Anyway, in a nutshell, guy has a BMW 318d, does a regular 350 mile round trip and wanted to see if a Volvo EV would allow him to do it more cheaply. Ended up costing him about £35 more than the BMW and 90 minutes more to do it in the EV.
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#525 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by simon »

With the electricity tariff pegged to the gas prices it's been marginal whether I charge my car or just use the petrol. For short journeys around town there's some sense in using electric, though when it's really cold the petrol engine automatically starts anyway.

With the future reduction in petrol and diesel usage the government will need to raise alternative tax revenues. I can imagine we might not see any reduction in electricity prices to reflect generation costs, perhaps the opposite if taxes increase.
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