Tesla.

[Ant]

There is a parent at my son's school who has a Nissan leaf, that makes a sound as it moves, its a quiet noise but it's so alien compared to the sound of all the other cars that it draws your attention to it.
The sound of a car is so ingrained in our heads that I dont think it triggers as much of a response as it once did, the electric leaf sound is not ingrained which is probably why its so noticable

[Greg]

One downside is the cost of insurance currently (arf), Tesla’s are group 50.

Yes, that, assuming I can make the purchase price, is probably the deal breaker for me. The grouping is no doubt owing to the acceleration and top speed capability. I don’t need that performance. It’s a shame though, because the Tesla has technology other motor manufacturers are still dreaming about.

[Ant]

It will also be repair costs of them that puts them in such a high group, just replacement battery cells will be hugely expensive if one is in a low speed shunt. iirc most of the floor is battery so they could get a low centre of gravity, in a low speed shunt there can be a lot of damage to floors, what looks like light damage to panels can be hiding much more serious damage u derneath.
When I was working in the industry, I saw loads of the vehicles that were written off that looked from the outside like a new bumper and some lights would have sorted it.
One of the older assessors who had been with the firm for about 30 years told me that older stuff with separate body and chassis had to have much more damage before it was written off than new cars do. I suppose the modern monocoque build method means that once its bent its bent, and writing off a 40 grand car ain't cheap....

[Greg]

It will also be repair costs of them that puts them in such a high group, just replacement battery cells will be hugely expensive if one is in a low speed shunt. iirc most of the floor is battery so they could get a low centre of gravity, in a low speed shunt there can be a lot of damage to floors, what looks like light damage to panels can be hiding much more serious damage u derneath.

Yes, but that applies to all EV’s as they all have batteries placed over the floor. I’m sure it is a performance thing. In contrast, the Hyundai Kona I am considering has an insurance group of 22-27. In comparison with the Tesla, the Kona has good but slower acceleration and a much reduced top speed.

The market appears to be changing day by day. It seems the VW ID 4 is about to be released. Undoubtably this will, for me, be another contender. I’ll not commit to a buy until this COVID stuff is at an acceptable and manageable level. At the moment I am doing less than ten miles a week and I’ve not been to a fuel station since the beginning of March. I still have over half a tank of fuel.

[simon]

This Prius is the best car to drive I've had. Yeah there are times I miss the RWD of my old 5 series BMW (not in snow!) but overall it's a great car.

Would I buy one if it weren't a company car? Don't know. There's a lot of technology to go wrong, though I've not heard reports if this being a problem.

[pre65]

Are there any "hybrid" cars where the engine is only used to produce electricity rather than having a mechanical connection to the wheels ?

[pre65]

Seems the term "range extender" is applied to vehicles (like the electric London cab) which have an IC engine coupled to a generator.

So if one had a purely electric vehicle one could tow a trailer with a 100KVA generator and 100ltr fuel tank wired up to charge the batteries. I wonder how the authorities would cope with that ?

EDIT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_ext ... drivetrain.

[pre65]

I can't seem to get a picture on here, but use Google Images for "electric car genset trailer" to see what is available.

Or, see this link for one example.

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/range-ext ... your-gear/

[shane]

That always seemed to me to be by far the best way to create a hybrid. If the IC engine has to be able to propel the car by itself then it needs to be specced to be able to provide the maximum performance of the car, which it will only ever spend a tiny part of its life doing. If on the other hand it’s only job is to drive a generator then a much smaller, lighter and more economical engine will do the job, but will still do the same amount of work overall.

Jaguar had the right idea with the CX75.

[Nick]

That always seemed to me to be by far the best way to create a hybrid. If the IC engine has to be able to propel the car by itself then it needs to be specced to be able to provide the maximum performance of the car, which it will only ever spend a tiny part of its life doing. If on the other hand it’s only job is to drive a generator then a much smaller, lighter and more economical engine will do the job, but will still do the same amount of work overall.

Jaguar had the right idea with the CX75.

Not sure if I follow that, for a given performance the engine has to be able to do that either directly to the wheels or via a generator, ignoring the extra losses of the trip via the generator the engine will have to be the same size as if the battery wasn't there. So a "much smaller, lighter and more economical engine" will not do the job. allowing the engine and the motor to both drive the wheels just requires a engine a motor and a battery. Engine to generator to battery to motor requires a engine, a motor, a generator and battery. In the first case the motor can double up as a generator, it can't in the second. What you do potentially loose is a gearbox and clutch. I think it would feel very odd that the engine revs was unconnected from the car speed though, which it would if the engine was just driving a generator.

[Dave the bass]

I think it would feel very odd that the engine revs was unconnected from the car speed though

It does but you get used to it, we get this in our old Ford Focus, it's got a CVT auto gearbox.

Engine revs decrease but road speed increases under some road and driving conditions.

[ed]

Daf wannabe.

[shane]

That always seemed to me to be by far the best way to create a hybrid. If the IC engine has to be able to propel the car by itself then it needs to be specced to be able to provide the maximum performance of the car, which it will only ever spend a tiny part of its life doing. If on the other hand it’s only job is to drive a generator then a much smaller, lighter and more economical engine will do the job, but will still do the same amount of work overall.

Jaguar had the right idea with the CX75.

Not sure if I follow that, for a given performance the engine has to be able to do that either directly to the wheels or via a generator, ignoring the extra losses of the trip via the generator the engine will have to be the same size as if the battery wasn't there. So a "much smaller, lighter and more economical engine" will not do the job. allowing the engine and the motor to both drive the wheels just requires a engine a motor and a battery. Engine to generator to battery to motor requires a engine, a motor, a generator and battery. In the first case the motor can double up as a generator, it can't in the second. What you do potentially loose is a gearbox and clutch. I think it would feel very odd that the engine revs was unconnected from the car speed though, which it would if the engine was just driving a generator.

Ok, look at it another way. Suppose I wanted to convert a Tesla Model S to be a hybrid, maintaining the same performance levels. The P100D produces around 600BHP, s an ic engine to duplicate that is probably going to be big and heavy. Now imagine that I want to travel from here to Halifax to show you. About a five hour journey and for about 98% of the time I’m going to be using less than 100bhp, and most of the time not much more than about 30 or 40.
The P100D has a 100kWh battery that weighs around half a ton. If I substitute that with a 50kWh battery, a Bladon Jets 90kW turbo generator and a suitable fuel tank, the all up weight is going to be about the same, the 605 BHP is still there when I want it and the generator is more than capable of keeping the battery topped up until the fuel runs out, after which I still have another 150 miles of range left.
In my normal everyday driving, charging at home, I’d not use the generator from one day to the next but it’s there when I need it for no penalty other than cost.

[Nick]

the 605 BHP is still there when I want it and the generator is more than capable of keeping the battery topped up until the fuel runs out

But I think you are double counting there. The generator is capable of keeping the battery topped up or driving the car, it cant do both at 605Bhp. You have escaped that with

and for about 98% of the time I’m going to be using less than 100bhp

But then you don't have the same performance, you assume you are not using the full performance.

My point is while in practice it may work, there is no free lunch. In your example, you could just charge up your battery only P100D while you were showing me it, and then you would have enough range to go the 300 miles (you would anyway as you were only using 30 or 40 bhp for the journey).

In my normal everyday driving, charging at home, I’d not use the generator from one day to the next but it’s there when I need it for no penalty other than cost.

And the extra weight of the generator you were not using and cycling half the battery size twice as much.

[Nick]

It’s EU legislation. Let’s see if it gets enforced.

£50 says that even if its not enforced, no manufacturer will make a special UK version that allows you to bypass it.