which components contribute most to music quality?

[Steptoe]

When I joined this forum a few weeks ago I had made a number of different amplifiers, which were built using whatever components came to hand. Most of these I enjoyed listening to, but having read many of the comments here it seems that there are so many variables associated with the different components that I have become totally confused. There is no set of circumstances where I can spend several thousand on speakers, valves or anything else so I would really welcome some detailed advice on the relative contribution of each component to the overall quality of the end product. For example, in the following list, what should I consider most important, bearing in mind that I cant pay top dollar for all,or even any, of them? Speakers, valves, o/p transformers, capacitors, cable, mains transformer and resistors.
I must apologise for bothering you on such a regular basis but I really need some guidance. In my naïve state I had thought that a capacitor was a capacitor, end of story, but that is obviously not the case. Best wishes, Steptoe.

[pre65]

Hi Steptoe, interesting question.

I shared your views for a long while.

I had a 300b amp which used a standard Hammond output transformer, and I liked the sound.

While at a friends mini fest he substituted a pair of silver wound output transformers and WOW, the difference (to the good) was immediately notable. So good quality iron is (for me) a priority.

But, I'm not so convinced about ultra fancy capacitors and resistors.

I suppose the best way is good quality without exorbitant prices. Ebay can be a good source for second user quality "iron" but sometimes one has to "bite the bullet" and pay the going rate if sound quality is important.

[Nick]

I am personally not sure if the common "the most important bit is the speakers", or "source first" either makes sense. As long as (for example) the speakers are of good quality (mine use about £300 of drivers and some bit sof ply wood for example. I can hear every improvement to source and amplifier. But the same would be true of improving the speakers.

I think its more of a geometric mean, assign each component a score from 0 to 1, then sum the squares of those numbers, and take the square root and divide the result by the number of components. The result is something like. if any of the parts has a lower score than the other, the average is pulled down a lot.

[IslandPink]

The other way of looking at it is that a poor component anywhere in the chain can 'break' the sound of the whole system .
Having said that, it's certainly possible to make a great-sounding system without breaking the bank, using the right choice of moderately-priced parts. We are the sort of chaps who can give you good ( though not entirely consistent ) advice on what's good to use, and what's good to avoid

[rowuk]

Our ears are the most important component.

Learning to listen is by far superior to all other disciplines. The human sense of hearing is extremely tolerant of many things when we are focussed on the right things. Speakers with poor low frequency response can still be very "revealing". Speakers that are not phase aligned can still sound very good (although phase is one of the key factors in our ability to "image").

The proper care and investment in our hearing (regular visits to the ear doctor) are very key to getting the most out of our kit.

After our ears, quality performances are the next most important investment. After that, everything is equally important. Great speakers are crap without a good source or amp, great amps are crap without good speakers and source.

If I had to put together something for a beginning appreciator of good audio and they had an Apple iPhone or iPod, I would recommend the Pure i20 dock, a decent 5 watt EL84 SEP amplifier a couple of 12" woofers ported woofers and a fairly efficient closed back midrange/high end like a Fostex full range. NO open back in the beginning. The first upgrade would be a super tweeter above 10K, making a 3 way system. The next upgrade would be separate amplifiers for the 12" woofers and the mid/tweet.

I consider this to be the easiest path to "big" low distortion sound. For more inspiration, google "econowave".

Once we have developed a feel for "big sound", our preferences will have "references". We can analyse what we feel is missing and act accordingly.

At some point in time we replace the iPod with a real computer and good DAC. For the brave, analogue sources could become interesting at this point.

The important part is not to change anything until we have defined something "wrong". Establish priorities, and stick to them!

[Ali Tait]

Assuming you have some decent components, I think the room makes the biggest difference.

[deathaction]

When I joined this forum a few weeks ago I had made a number of different amplifiers, which were built using whatever components came to hand. Most of these I enjoyed listening to, but having read many of the comments here it seems that there are so many variables associated with the different components that I have become totally confused. There is no set of circumstances where I can spend several thousand on speakers, valves or anything else so I would really welcome some detailed advice on the relative contribution of each component to the overall quality of the end product. For example, in the following list, what should I consider most important, bearing in mind that I cant pay top dollar for all,or even any, of them? Speakers, valves, o/p transformers, capacitors, cable, mains transformer and resistors.
I must apologise for bothering you on such a regular basis but I really need some guidance. In my naïve state I had thought that a capacitor was a capacitor, end of story, but that is obviously not the case. Best wishes, Steptoe.

very interesting

[Mike H]

"Which components contribute most to music quality?"

All.

Most of us here have gone around and around in circles trying swapping all sorts of different components to find what it is that is making that horrible noise or what do I need to do to get some decent treble, or if the cap value(s) are big enough then why is the bass non-existent, etcetera....

My personal conclusions ~

Resistors: carbon film, carbon composite or wirewound. (I tend to find metal film too harsh and some other types too 'woolly'.)

Capacitors: good quality electrolytic, audio polypropylene (MUST be made for audio, not all polyprops are by any means the same or even at all desirable in an audio signal path); and polystyrene. At a pinch, old stock type mylar film. Even old stock polyester are supposed to be good but again HAVE to be audio grade.

I avoid like the plague mica, ceramic disc and any general purpose modern polyester or polypropylene, which mostly tend to be for power filtering applications anyway, not audio.

Old electrolytics can be problematic too as they tend to dry out and lose their value, and if that old weren't very high spec to start with.

HTH (?)

... or maybe not...

[Firebottle]

You can overcome the limitations of the output transformer in a valve amplifier by getting rid of it altogether. Admittedly paying top dollar for an output trannie will achieve a very good outcome, but say hello to the OTL - Output Transformer Less valve amp.

They are not for every system I hasten to add, low impedance or 'difficult' speaker loads really don't match. If you have an easy to drive speaker or better still electrostatics then an OTL is sublime. There's resolution and depth to the bass in spades if done properly, the real drawback is the low efficiency.

They always say you can't have everything

Alan

[Nick]

If you have an easy to drive speaker or better still electrostatics then an OTL is sublime.

Except many statics have impedances that plunge below a couple of ohms at HF, which is far from ideal for a OTL.

[pre65]

You can overcome the limitations of the output transformer in a valve amplifier by getting rid of it altogether. Admittedly paying top dollar for an output trannie will achieve a very good outcome, but say hello to the OTL - Output Transformer Less valve amp.

They are not for every system I hasten to add, low impedance or 'difficult' speaker loads really don't match. If you have an easy to drive speaker or better still electrostatics then an OTL is sublime. There's resolution and depth to the bass in spades if done properly, the real drawback is the low efficiency.

They always say you can't have everything

Alan

I have a good pair of OPT that are shared between several different amps, and not actually mounted on the amp chassis. So, when I build a new amp the OPT don't need to be purchased.

It does limit my choice a bit, but 5 K with 4,8 & 16 ohm taps is versatile.

Last time I costed up an OTL build the transformer costs alone put me off.

[Firebottle]

Hi Nick,
I know that the esl impedance dips to 2 ohms at 18KHz but I'm not too worried.
The OTL still puts out some power at that level, the musical energy at that frequency is small and anyway I can't hear that high up anymore anyway

Phil, when I ordered the mains trannie it was about £140 delivered. I guess you pay a lot more than that for a decent pair of output trannies?

Cheers, Alan

[rowuk]

I have a good pair of OPT that are shared between several different amps, and not actually mounted on the amp chassis. So, when I build a new amp the OPT don't need to be purchased.

It does limit my choice a bit, but 5 K with 4,8 & 16 ohm taps is versatile.

Last time I costed up an OTL build the transformer costs alone put me off.

That is a brilliant idea, make the OPT a part of the speaker crossover! If you have 8 ohm speakers, you can attach them to the 4 ohm tap for a 10K OPT and to the 16 ohm tap for a high inductivity 2500 ohm OPT. That is also a great voicing tool!

I had 2 OTL amps blow up on me. One took my headphones out, the second one a pair of someone elses speakers. No more of that for me.

I think I remember in the 70s some direct drive OTL experiments for electrostats (Quad and Acoustat IIRC). As they use thousands instead of hundreds of volts, hardly something that you could bang up on a weekend. Stability would surely also be an issue.

I would think a good 4:1 stepup would be much more reliable and stable than OTL. I can't imagine it sounding worse.

[pre65]

Hi Nick,
I know that the esl impedance dips to 2 ohms at 18KHz but I'm not too worried.
The OTL still puts out some power at that level, the musical energy at that frequency is small and anyway I can't hear that high up anymore anyway

Phil, when I ordered the mains trannie it was about £140 delivered. I guess you pay a lot more than that for a decent pair of output trannies?

Cheers, Alan

The amp I was looking at used several different transformers, and I like to do monoblocks.

[Dave the bass]

The amp I was looking at used several different transformers, and I like to do monoblocks.

Well.... in that case... increase yer budget then to accomodate!

DTB