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IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:46 pm

Another good thread from a few years ago, about horn bass vs. OB bass.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-wa ... -bass.html
'Clash of the titans' as Thorsten and Magnetar go head-to-head !

nicoch · Post by **nicoch** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:08 pm

HI Simon the 12p work as a tweeter ?

tnx

simon · Post by **simon** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Hi nicoch, I don't see why not though they might be a bit over the top for that use? It's early days with them but I wonder if they might just benefit from a supertweeter. They're fine on their own, really, I just wonder if that last bit of sparkle is missing. But then I think they were designed that way to give the best compromise for the brief?

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:34 pm

That's one reason I went for a pair, looking at the frequency response, they should do better in the treble than the B200 I use at the moment. Should get a chance to try them in the OB's over the holidays.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:55 pm

That's good Ali. I have always thought that although your baffles sound good, they lack something in the very high treble. I think I mentioned this to you before. Cymbals don't sparkle the way they should IMHO by way of example. Let us know how you get on with the new drivers.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:38 pm

You have indeed Greg, Mike also has said the same in the past, though interestingly no one else has, and I have in the past made a point of asking people if they thought the same. I don't feel they are lacking at home, but as I've said, maybe I've just got used to them. Be interesting to see what the differences are..

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:41 pm

Absolutely, Ali, and no doubt, how they sound at Owston is a complete compromise compared to how they sound at home. I completely share that experience with you. The Owston before last, Paul agreed with me on this observation. Nevertheless, I'm very much interested on how the new drivers perform. Please let us know.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:53 pm

Will do. I did actually buy some super tweeters on ebay to try, with a switchable xover point. Didn't really notice any difference, but then they were not expensive.

I still remember Will's Jericos with his nice Fostex super tweeters , when we switched them in and out of circuit. The difference was totally obvious, so maybe I should try some of those.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:14 pm

Ali Tait wrote:I still remember Will's Jericos with his nice Fostex super tweeters , when we switched them in and out of circuit. The difference was totally obvious, so maybe I should try some of those.

Yep, totally agree on that regarding Will's speakers. What gobsmacked me was how when listening they seemed to offer so much to the overall sound, but put your ear close to them and all you could hear was hash. I don't understand why but the experience was witnessed by several of us. I'm sure you're going the right way. Looking forward to your observations.

IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:18 pm

I hope they weren't the alnico ones, because they cost a few bob !

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:04 pm

Can't remember, I do remember him saying he got them on German ebay for a good price.

The difference they made was startling, and not just in the top end. Strange, since they were crossed over at a frequency that should be inaudible to the human ear. Or summat.

Scottmoose · Post by **Scottmoose** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:01 am

I believe Will's were Visaton units -at least the ones I remember were.

Depends on the specific implementation, but usually they help with harmonic reproduction. Remember that crossovers are not brick-wall filters. The most commonly encountered implementations of supertweeters with wideband drivers tend to have a 1st order high pass on a driver that's fairly flat down to about 5KHz, more or less. So, assuming a 20KHz XO frequency, you're only going to be ~6dB down at 10KHz given the slow roll-off rate. That's just one example of course, there are many others.

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:03 pm

They are Visaton TL16...

simon · Post by **simon** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:37 pm

simon wrote:It's early days with them but I wonder if they might just benefit from a supertweeter. They're fine on their own, really, I just wonder if that last bit of sparkle is missing. But then I think they were designed that way to give the best compromise for the brief?

I lugged the baffles downstairs in to the lounge this weekend as I was home alone. They work really well with the GM70 amp I have to say, and the 12Ps got quite a work out

. I did connect up the Fostex T90A supertweeters and they did make a difference, more so than I expected to be honest. Not that there was anything fundamental missing without, as Scott says it's the harmonics they add that give the air and sparkle. As full range drivers the 12Ps are excellent though.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:24 pm

Good to know Simon, have to try some on mine.

audio-talk

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