Alpair12P MLTL speakers

[andrew Ivimey]

Fear not Mr T, your speakers are safe from my criticism! Its my loss that I haven't heard the Edingdales nor these but I hope to do so. They look smashing - No, I suppose I was saying, in the usual oblique way that is my idiom in all things, that 'shoddy' was once hilarious. Dave's casual dismissive comment was inspirationally brilliant and made me titter for months. But it is rather overused now donchathink? And then all the flowing compliments read more like a love-in was brewing rather than the objective and reasoned comments of mature and sensible men like we all should be. Hence Greg using 'shoddy' and me using his oft repeated 'get a room' sort of comment; I tied them together but never mind eh. I have never read books about solvent abuse, I must admit but I have seen what it can do and imho the sooner they legalise cannabis the better because as eni fule no there is more chance of dieing from riding horses than of munching ecstasy tablets and as for smoking dope well ...nonsense. And I cannot make the trip up north to sit in the back of your living room muttering inconsequential and vaguely threatening comments about your excelent veneer work while youse lots gets on with high quaity lissnin', my regret, but I'm busy so I don't have to threaten you with that either.

Onwards!

[Toppsy]

Tis OK MrI. I got up a little grumpy this morning after a bad night's sleep and mis-interpreted your feedback.

Pity you cannot make it this coming weekend it would have been a pleasure of your company and conversation. Perhaps another time hey? I can accommodate a couple for sleepovers which should help break the journey from down south.

Perhaps if you southerners can arrange something of the likes Simon used to for his birthday bashes I will bring the speakers down with me.

[pre65]

Pity you cannot make it this coming weekend it would have been a pleasure of your company and conversation.

This coming weekend ?

Thought you said the 26th ?

[Toppsy]

Phil,

Yes, you are so right I meant the Saturday 26th which is the weeknd after next. Oopps! minor senoir moment there.

[adrian]

Hi all (after a long sleep and not much lurking here)

those speakers look fantastic Colin. Oddly, for my lounge system (ie a Denon mini system) I need a pair of narrow and not-too-deep floorstanders, preferably in oak! I'll be selling 2 pairs of Adire HE10s (one mk1 the other mk2) shortly and then going for floorstanders.

Colin, how long before these beauties might be available as a kit? Any chance of a PM if you are able to give a price for a single pair like these?

Cheers

Adrian

by the way, you may all be interested in my upstairs speakers. Those with good memories may recall that Gerry brought a pair of Maggies (SMGc) to Witham, that worked very well with my little old KEL84. I've now done work on the X-O (which is external) and put the Maggies (which Gerry kindly lent me on a permanent basis) in a new hard-wood frame. Look and sound excellent. All the work on the X-O and frames followed ideas on Peter Gunn's website in the US (he also helped quite a bit by email). The only advice I didn't take was the use of Duelund resistors - far too revealing in the top-end for my delicate lugholes. I've stuck with my favourite Mills

[Toppsy]

Colin, how long before these beauties might be available as a kit? Any chance of a PM if you are able to give a price for a single pair like these?

Adrian,

The speakers that I referred to as being available as a kit is my Rossendales http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4171 not the MLTL's as featured in this thread. However, I can make another pair these MLTL's in Oak. Haven't worked out prices yet or when the Rossendale kits will be avialable. The Rossendales are still in development work but should be sorted within a week or two.

[adrian]

Thanks Colin

could you please post the dimensions of the 2 speakers? I suspect that the Rossendales will be more acceptable from an aesthetic point of view

Thanks

Adrian

[zman]

So gents, was there any weekend listening session hosted by Mr. Topps?

The drivers should have more hours on them by this time. How are the speakers sounding?

[chris661]

I wrote up a bit of a review over on the thread about this meet - its in Assorted Stuff.

The speakers didn't do much wrong, but to my taste lacked a bit of aggression.

Its certainly the closest to full-range from a single driver that I've heard in a while: bass went rather low, and the treble was all present and correct.
Being a subwoofer maniac, I'd rather a bit more right at the bottom end, but these are only one driver, and what they can do is very good.

Chris

[Greg]

Being a subwoofer maniac, I'd rather a bit more right at the bottom end, but these are only one driver, and what they can do is very good.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I wonder where you are coming from on this. Is it that you simply like the effect of subwoofer sound, regardless of authenticity? Or are you suggesting that the subwoofer sound is needed to authentically replicate original, possibly live sound?

Or are you simply saying that this one driver design doesn't do all that is needed to show the full sound stage. If that is the case, there will be plenty of us out here who have found the solution in our own systems and not all of these have needed the introduction of subwoofers.

Of course, if you like an artificial subwoofer sound because of the effect, that fits with the alcoholics argument. They drink for effect and nothing else.

Is your subwoofer love simply about enjoying an extreme sound with a total disregard for authentic sound reproduction?

Having said that, when I was a student, I only cared about effect. Making the windows rattle was essential

Finally, as much as I try, I find it very difficult to differentiate between affect and effect. I hope I've got it right in this post, but if I'm wrong, please let me know!

Greg

[Andrew]

I wrote up a bit of a review over on the thread about this meet - its in Assorted Stuff.

The speakers didn't do much wrong, but to my taste lacked a bit of aggression.

Its certainly the closest to full-range from a single driver that I've heard in a while: bass went rather low, and the treble was all present and correct.
Being a subwoofer maniac, I'd rather a bit more right at the bottom end, but these are only one driver, and what they can do is very good.

Chris

Well, Chris has certainly persuaded me to put aside my prejudices and give a sub a try, when I'll get chance I don't know, but what intrigued me was the very obvious bass null that happened in Colin's room whatever speaker we used.

The thrust of Chris' point was that a well positioned sub could both reinforce the bass (how much is up to the user) and prevent the standing waves that caused the null by filling in the gaps.

If I could try this at home without too much associated cost then I'd be more than willing to report back.

-- Andrew

[Scottmoose]

Based on Todd Welti's AES paper:

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/ ... ltsubs.pdf

The problem with subwoofers is that most are rubbish, which is further compounded by people not using them very well. Ultimately, they're just bass speakers, dedicated to the lowest end of the audible frequency range, so results vary depending on the quality of implementation, both in terms of their design and how they are used, same as any other speaker. I'd rather do without than have poor examples, or be unable to implement them properly for space / whatever reasons.

[chris661]

Being a subwoofer maniac, I'd rather a bit more right at the bottom end, but these are only one driver, and what they can do is very good.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I wonder where you are coming from on this. Is it that you simply like the effect of subwoofer sound, regardless of authenticity? Or are you suggesting that the subwoofer sound is needed to authentically replicate original, possibly live sound?

Or are you simply saying that this one driver design doesn't do all that is needed to show the full sound stage. If that is the case, there will be plenty of us out here who have found the solution in our own systems and not all of these have needed the introduction of subwoofers.

Of course, if you like an artificial subwoofer sound because of the effect, that fits with the alcoholics argument. They drink for effect and nothing else.

Is your subwoofer love simply about enjoying an extreme sound with a total disregard for authentic sound reproduction?

Having said that, when I was a student, I only cared about effect. Making the windows rattle was essential

Finally, as much as I try, I find it very difficult to differentiate between affect and effect. I hope I've got it right in this post, but if I'm wrong, please let me know!

Greg

Hi Greg,

For me, its a couple of things.

Playing something like Enya... Without the subwoofer, the lowest bass notes are quite a lot quieter than the rest. Add the subwoofer (remember it plays <45Hz), and those notes are filled out nicely. The 6" woofers I use in my L/R speakers, while good for what they are, won't move air like a 12".
Same applies for movies - the LF presence available means explosions etc can carry the weight they ought to.

Of course, its occasionally fun to get the Subwoofer Effect, cranking the sub level up by 6-12dB, watching the cone really move, and feeling my t-shirt ripple a little. As I'm in student accomodation, that doesn't happen often.

I agree that a subwoofer isn't always necessary. A system that hits 30Hz nicely will be (IMHO) fine without, unless movies at high levels are required. I've seen systems that'll do that, but the main cabinets are large. My main speakers are fairly small, but go low enough to hand over to a subwoofer that can be placed almost anywhere in the room, without having to worry about source localisation.
The required lower cutoff will depend on musical tastes etc, but I'd say 30Hz is sufficient for 99% of music.

I usually use "affect" as a verb, and "effect" as a noun.
Eg, the Doppler Effect affects the sound we hear.

HTH

Chris

[chris661]

Same applies for movies - the LF presence available means explosions etc can carry the weight they ought to.

Watched the new Resident Evil movie with the Subwoofer Effect firmly in place. I got the movie off a friend via pendrive. I didn't ask how he got it.

Anyway.
Set the low-pass to ~30Hz, so it was only the really low stuff coming from the subwoofer. Applied plenty of boost: the sealed box enclosure starts rolling off ~50Hz, so this formed a very crude Linkwitz Transform, bringing the low bass in line with the rest.

At times, the low end triggered a bit of a flight-or-fight response. I believe this dates way back to prehistoric times, where the biggest animals would produces noises containing very low frequencies, which served as a handy warning signal.

Given the nature of the film, it somewhat completed the experience.



Back on-topic, Andrew, how were the speakers received at yours?

Chris

[pre65]

At times, the low end triggered a bit of a flight-or-fight response. I believe this dates way back to prehistoric times, where the biggest animals would produces noises containing very low frequencies, which served as a handy warning signal.


Chris

Indeed Chris, I remember those noises.