Speaker cable

chris661 · Post by **chris661** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:13 pm

Electrons do move - a quick read on Drift Velocity should point you in the right direction.

That said, for AC (as speakers run on) electrons overall do not move. The amplitude of the short-term DC components in music cause them to move one way, but they'll head back the other way once the signal goes negative.

Chris

Scottmoose · Post by **Scottmoose** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:49 pm

robert wrote:The cable sounds so good because it presents its self as an optimum match to the output transformer, it operates at the optimum level where you get
minimum distortion and maximum power transfer.

Robert

Are we talking impedance matching speaker wire here? Sorry, but that's nonsense. For a start, you're talking as if we all had amplifiers with output transformers (which we don't), and that all of those output transformers were the same (which they're not). Secondly, the job of a piece of speaker wire is to connect the amplifier to the speaker, which is a complex and changing impedance, as Nick points out. How exactly does a piece of wire therefore present an 'optimum match?'

http://sound.westhost.com/cable-z.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/education/ca ... -resonance

robert · Post by **robert** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Low resistance,low capacitance and low inductance provides a good
reflected impedance, except that there current changes in sympathy to the audio frequencies, that why it sounds so very good , I can only say that you will have to make one and draw your own conclusions, I don't see why it should not work for any Hi Fi set up.

Robert

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:01 pm

Also (+Steve S) check out 'skin effect' for AC and how much you get or not depending on frequency, I believe I saw it on Wikipedia, had a good comparison table anyway. For the audio band there's not a lot worth worrying about.

Scottmoose · Post by **Scottmoose** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:06 pm

Skin effect? In speaker wire? Here you go: http://www.audioholics.com/education/ca ... ker-cables

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:59 pm

Like I said "there's not a lot worth worrying about"

IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:16 pm

I'm not going to worry about it, but it does sound different. Litz speaker wire sounds better than thicker single-core enamelled wire, at the top end . Litz wire is de-rigeur for phono arm internal wires if you want to get full resolution at those small signal levels .
Transformers wound with litz wire on the secondaries ( I have two pairs of PP 300B outputs one with normal wire, one with litz ) again sound significantly cleaner at the top end , with more high treble tone and fine detail .
Sorry if it doesn't agree with your simple theories .

robert · Post by **robert** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:19 pm

Because it uses low loss RF cable it is totally transparent to the audio frequencies and its not tuned to any type of amp valve or transistor amp, you really have to listen to the cable in question without any pre - conceived
ideas before you can pass judgment , it sounds so good because it presents
the correct load to the amp, impedance is a very complex subject.

Robert

Post by **Nick** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:52 pm

Hmm, anyone who has tried different cables will know that they do make a difference, but its a jump to go from that to "its all strange and mysterious". I dont know if Chris has got to Maxwell yet, but I think we do have a good idea about the physics behind the conduction of current in conductors. And yes, impedance is complex (not sure if you meant that as a pun or not, but I do). But not 'that' complex, and again I think we just have it about covered. If (at the frequencies we are concerned with) impedance matching was a issue, I would expect to see zobel networks on every power substation.

Scottmoose · Post by **Scottmoose** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:03 pm

Because it uses low loss RF cable it is totally transparent to the audio frequencies and its not tuned to any type of amp valve or transistor amp, you really have to listen to the cable in question without any pre - conceived ideas before you can pass judgment , it sounds so good because it presents the correct load to the amp, impedance is a very complex subject.

Low loss satellite cable does not present 'the correct load to the amp' because a/ there is no such thing, and b/ the amplifier is driving a loudspeaker with a varying impedance. The wire that connects the two does not change the loudspeaker's frequency varying impedance into some magical 'correct load', whatever that might be.

IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:15 pm

I agree with you there Scott, that's the way I see it. The cable can only have a very small effect on the speaker's capacitance/inductance which is a pretty non-ideal load for any amp to be honest .

Robert, you obviously get what you need from this cable recipe. Personally I haven't time to make it ( too much else on ) but it would be good to compare against others if you could bring it along to a meeting. You don't say what part of the country your live in .

steve s · Post by **steve s** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:52 am

Mike H wrote:Also (+Steve S) check out 'skin effect' for AC and how much you get or not depending on frequency, I believe I saw it on Wikipedia, had a good comparison table anyway. For the audio band there's not a lot worth worrying about.

That one one of the many things I was checking mike, and what I ment when I said about electrons moving to the outside of the conductor,

What I've been more concerned about is the 'field ' I'm sort of happy to go along with a view that spacing a of the +/- is an advantage, with regard to the fields, may be wrong .... But that's my choice at the moment.

the next task for me is decide on what would be the best type of conductor, or conductors once the conduits are in. I'm hoping it will be an easy job to fit a few types, and see what works out the best, but I've a lot of work to to elsewhere before then.
I've done far to much reading and it only leaves me wondering, I like to know what kit the cable is being assessed on, and what its being I compared to. I generally have a different approach to this hobby to many as you know, and was very happy with solid core spaced out, but I still have that memory of those TQ 's that's left me wanting.

In the mean time I on with building paving slab shelves for the decks /amps to sit on, two weekends so far at it and I've still got lots to finish before they are plastered in, had to run an independent radial to it so it should be spot on for the task... but it has left me feeling rather audiophool ish all the same... comapred to my usual stance on these things

Colin TQ · Post by **Colin TQ** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:14 pm

Scottmoose wrote:Skin effect? In speaker wire? Here you go: http://www.audioholics.com/education/ca ... ker-cables

Just one small point to mention in a word:- rubbish.
Yes the calc are right but the assumption that audio is 20KHz limit is not.
OK you ear can;t hear it but you do here the harmonics and sub harmonic and the lack of them when you limit to 20KHz.
This also assume you are only conducting at any one time one frequency (strange music) and that the other frequencies do not occupies the same conductor oh so wrong.
The writer was not thinking wide enough he has limited his thinking, please go and start again.

chris661 · Post by **chris661** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:02 pm

Colin TQ, could you provide some links or other evidence to support your assertions?

I found some interesting reading on another forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/349103/bandwid ... n-vinyl-cd

Colin TQ · Post by **Colin TQ** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:29 pm

chris661 wrote:Colin TQ, could you provide some links or other evidence to support your assertions?

I found some interesting reading on another forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/349103/bandwid ... n-vinyl-cd

In short No, but there is lots and lots of info in you library, but it is common sense, not all music is the same note.
But read all info on this site :-

www.archive.org

and also try some of the nice music on it.

audio-talk

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