Ali,
I'm looking forward to hearing my K Horns through some tubes. I have been a Solid State guy for years, all of my personal equipment (HT and 2 channel) is SAE, Sony. I use Crowns/Drive Rack 260's to drive the bigger speakers, MWM 1900's (two sets with La Scala Industrials as filler) that we use for outdoor events.
I have been wanting to build an amp for years and after many months of research I picked the WAD. I have Tony Moore to thank for that, with his build thread, even though we have never talked. Greg and Jan here have also been great to talk to and have supplied me with more information than I could have imagined. Sometimes "Thank You" is not enough and both of these guys have gone far beyond anything that was expected. Geoff at SP has been great also, along with Michael Percy....!
W. C.
Another First Time Poster
#16
Avatar: The DC=3 Is The Queen Of The Skies
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
#17
Yes, good choice, it's probably the best PP amp I've heard. I've had WAD 300PP, 300b PSE monoblocks, KEL 84 and I use a WAD Pre2.
I do wonder though, given your speakers and your musical tastes, that you may prefer an SE amp.
I do wonder though, given your speakers and your musical tastes, that you may prefer an SE amp.
#18
Ali,
The build, so to speak is committed. I am interested in your opinion as to why an SE amp would be (Better?) than a Push-Pull. Again, I am a solid state person trying tubes, so I have nothing to base the choice on other than all of the information I have read about the WAD PP, across many forums. I am certainly open to ANY advice and suggestions. It is going to be hard for me to realize any better sound from a tube vs solid state, as the K Horns are very unforgiving and will show the quality of the source immediately. I am totally not expecting to be WOWed or dazzeld by the tube sound but I am always looking for improvement. If the amp works out, I will probably keep the LF on SS and the HF on tubes, in a Bi-Amp setting. I must say that the set up I have now reproduces the sound as good as (I) could expect. I judge the quality of sound by closing my eyes and getting the feeling that the Artist are actually in the room with me. If tubes can better that feeling, I am certainly all for it. All of the charts, calculations, sine waves and measurements do not really overcome what you can actually feel from the music. it may look great on paper but performance is the final factor, IMHO. I have found that room accoustics play as large a part in sound quality as anything else, also, I have never been able to tell the difference between a cheap set of Rat Shack cables versus the $750.00 pair of hook up wires. Maybe I have a TIN ear, who knows. Others that have herd my systems are the only judge I have, as to the performance and believe me, I have some very critical friends....!
W. C.
The build, so to speak is committed. I am interested in your opinion as to why an SE amp would be (Better?) than a Push-Pull. Again, I am a solid state person trying tubes, so I have nothing to base the choice on other than all of the information I have read about the WAD PP, across many forums. I am certainly open to ANY advice and suggestions. It is going to be hard for me to realize any better sound from a tube vs solid state, as the K Horns are very unforgiving and will show the quality of the source immediately. I am totally not expecting to be WOWed or dazzeld by the tube sound but I am always looking for improvement. If the amp works out, I will probably keep the LF on SS and the HF on tubes, in a Bi-Amp setting. I must say that the set up I have now reproduces the sound as good as (I) could expect. I judge the quality of sound by closing my eyes and getting the feeling that the Artist are actually in the room with me. If tubes can better that feeling, I am certainly all for it. All of the charts, calculations, sine waves and measurements do not really overcome what you can actually feel from the music. it may look great on paper but performance is the final factor, IMHO. I have found that room accoustics play as large a part in sound quality as anything else, also, I have never been able to tell the difference between a cheap set of Rat Shack cables versus the $750.00 pair of hook up wires. Maybe I have a TIN ear, who knows. Others that have herd my systems are the only judge I have, as to the performance and believe me, I have some very critical friends....!
W. C.
Avatar: The DC=3 Is The Queen Of The Skies
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
-
Paul Barker
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- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:42 pm
#19
Well there are many good ways to skin a cat and that amp is one of them.
The various pros and cons of Se versus PP is long documented and no way is it worth draging out from the archives. If you are interested do a search. If you aren't don't.
The various pros and cons of Se versus PP is long documented and no way is it worth draging out from the archives. If you are interested do a search. If you aren't don't.
#20
Paul is quite right. I would say though, that people who like valve amps always form a preference for one topology over the other. You need to listen for yourself to form your own preference. Don't get me wrong, you won't be disappointed with the amp you're building, it's very good indeed IMHO.heli001 wrote:Ali,
The build, so to speak is committed. I am interested in your opinion as to why an SE amp would be (Better?) than a Push-Pull. Again, I am a solid state person trying tubes, so I have nothing to base the choice on other than all of the information I have read about the WAD PP, across many forums. I am certainly open to ANY advice and suggestions. It is going to be hard for me to realize any better sound from a tube vs solid state, as the K Horns are very unforgiving and will show the quality of the source immediately. I am totally not expecting to be WOWed or dazzeld by the tube sound but I am always looking for improvement. If the amp works out, I will probably keep the LF on SS and the HF on tubes, in a Bi-Amp setting. I must say that the set up I have now reproduces the sound as good as (I) could expect. I judge the quality of sound by closing my eyes and getting the feeling that the Artist are actually in the room with me. If tubes can better that feeling, I am certainly all for it. All of the charts, calculations, sine waves and measurements do not really overcome what you can actually feel from the music. it may look great on paper but performance is the final factor, IMHO. I have found that room accoustics play as large a part in sound quality as anything else, also, I have never been able to tell the difference between a cheap set of Rat Shack cables versus the $750.00 pair of hook up wires. Maybe I have a TIN ear, who knows. Others that have herd my systems are the only judge I have, as to the performance and believe me, I have some very critical friends....!
W. C.
#21
Paul,
I am committed to the PP so I really have no reason to research SE amps at this point, other than to possibly satisfy my curiosity of whether I made the right choice. I really doubt if there is any "Right Choice" when it comes to so many varied opinions. I certainly did not bring up the PP vs SE debate and at this time, I am still happy with my choice. Anyway, this is the New Users section and is more than likely not the place to discuss it. I feel sure that during the course of my build thread, the question will come up again and that will be the place to discuss it.
I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and it is probably time to start the build thread. I look forward to everyone holding my hand through the build and to keep me from making any disastrous mistakes.
Thanks again for everyone's time,
W. C.
I am committed to the PP so I really have no reason to research SE amps at this point, other than to possibly satisfy my curiosity of whether I made the right choice. I really doubt if there is any "Right Choice" when it comes to so many varied opinions. I certainly did not bring up the PP vs SE debate and at this time, I am still happy with my choice. Anyway, this is the New Users section and is more than likely not the place to discuss it. I feel sure that during the course of my build thread, the question will come up again and that will be the place to discuss it.
I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and it is probably time to start the build thread. I look forward to everyone holding my hand through the build and to keep me from making any disastrous mistakes.
Thanks again for everyone's time,
W. C.
Avatar: The DC=3 Is The Queen Of The Skies
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
-
Paul Barker
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- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:42 pm
#22
Yes I know, I was just trying to say it isn't a pain free or solvable discussion. Most of us are tired of the wrangling and we live in peace now, all be it from different sides. The opinions are so well covered historically any present discussion wouldn't do the topic as much justice as past conversations.
#23
To (probably mis-)quote a famous ex-BBC valve head who has written a few words on the subject of "Building Valve Amplifiers".
"The Achilles heal of PP amp is the phase splitter."
The reason the old WAD PP is so good is that it doesn't have one, nuff said, damm fine amp...took me several years to work out why it was so good tho'.
I am sure you will not be disappointed!
Good luck, I am looking forward to the build.
Andrew
"The Achilles heal of PP amp is the phase splitter."
The reason the old WAD PP is so good is that it doesn't have one, nuff said, damm fine amp...took me several years to work out why it was so good tho'.
I am sure you will not be disappointed!
Good luck, I am looking forward to the build.
Andrew
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
#24
Andrew,
Thanks for the "Quote"...! That is one of the reasons that I decided to go with this particular PP design.
Anyway, I have made the first post in the new build thread. I certainly hope that I get the support there that I have received in this thread. I look forward to learning and sharing information in what I think will be a FUN topic....!
W. C.
Thanks for the "Quote"...! That is one of the reasons that I decided to go with this particular PP design.
Anyway, I have made the first post in the new build thread. I certainly hope that I get the support there that I have received in this thread. I look forward to learning and sharing information in what I think will be a FUN topic....!
W. C.
Avatar: The DC=3 Is The Queen Of The Skies
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
-
andrew Ivimey
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- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#26
Yeah well, late to the discussion - muchos welcome - I've flown in a DC3 ... as a passenger! and if these chaps can go onandonand on andon about bloody motorcycles there's no reason why you can't go on about planes, politics and religion - might not get any takers though!
now as to the WAD300B PP. I got hold of one, twas built well but not right. I put it right. Its not a bad amp. It is not a great amp. I think it is seriously flawed. Okay the phase splitter is dealt with - hooray!- but the input stage just isn't right. Why on earth is there so much gain - reminds me of a Quad303! Why not go for the sheer topologically beautiful 'Karna' -esque amplifier from Lynn Olsen (nutshellaudio.com, I think) Kevin Carter, he who sells lundahl transformers, does a marvellous looking PP amp using KT66s as outputs - very similar topology. These are examples of excellent amplifiers - all IMHO of course, but these leave such as WAD300B quite a way behind.
now as to the WAD300B PP. I got hold of one, twas built well but not right. I put it right. Its not a bad amp. It is not a great amp. I think it is seriously flawed. Okay the phase splitter is dealt with - hooray!- but the input stage just isn't right. Why on earth is there so much gain - reminds me of a Quad303! Why not go for the sheer topologically beautiful 'Karna' -esque amplifier from Lynn Olsen (nutshellaudio.com, I think) Kevin Carter, he who sells lundahl transformers, does a marvellous looking PP amp using KT66s as outputs - very similar topology. These are examples of excellent amplifiers - all IMHO of course, but these leave such as WAD300B quite a way behind.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
#27
Andrew,
It is nutshellhifi.com and I can not get the link to work. I truly appreciate your honesty and opinion. At this point, I am committed to the WAD and as my first venture into valves I still don't think it is a bad choice, from what I have read. I feel sure that it will not be the last amp I build and I would certainly want to find the "Perfect" amp, like we all do.
I was fortunate that I have read all of your past post on the WAD 300B PP and I still made the decision to build it. Anyway, I have started a build theread in the DIY Section and welcome your input and any improvements that you care to suggest. The top plates arrived today from Front Panel Express, so I need to go add some pictures. It may be a crappy amp, but it will look impressive.
W. C.
It is nutshellhifi.com and I can not get the link to work. I truly appreciate your honesty and opinion. At this point, I am committed to the WAD and as my first venture into valves I still don't think it is a bad choice, from what I have read. I feel sure that it will not be the last amp I build and I would certainly want to find the "Perfect" amp, like we all do.
I was fortunate that I have read all of your past post on the WAD 300B PP and I still made the decision to build it. Anyway, I have started a build theread in the DIY Section and welcome your input and any improvements that you care to suggest. The top plates arrived today from Front Panel Express, so I need to go add some pictures. It may be a crappy amp, but it will look impressive.
W. C.
Avatar: The DC=3 Is The Queen Of The Skies
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
Helicopters Don't Fly....The Beat The Air Into Submission....!
It is hard to get upset with someone if it takes their complete brain power to keep themselves breathing.
-
andrew Ivimey
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- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#29
As a first valve amp sure - but that implies a second and a third etc etc!.
its nutshellhifi.com sorry about that - a really great read about lots of things.
The major fault with the amp is actually if you build it in the shape and form and chassis as specc'd. With that PCB that holds the front end and the drilled out chassis you are trapped into building the design as is. With a 6072 its a good valve but you need more transformers, more glass and fewer components. I have heard so much better even at Owston and even using the dread 300B as outputs.
However I wish you good luck - as a first valve amp then its good.
its nutshellhifi.com sorry about that - a really great read about lots of things.
The major fault with the amp is actually if you build it in the shape and form and chassis as specc'd. With that PCB that holds the front end and the drilled out chassis you are trapped into building the design as is. With a 6072 its a good valve but you need more transformers, more glass and fewer components. I have heard so much better even at Owston and even using the dread 300B as outputs.
However I wish you good luck - as a first valve amp then its good.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
#30
Arr Andrew, thank you for being honest at last. Several of us always thought your explaination that the WAD 300B PP was the 'Best amp in the world' was a very cynical statement on your part designed to wind up users/owners like me. That failed 
I've yet to hear something produced by you that has the overall versatility this amp has in terms of 'play anything you throw at it' so actually, your observation is invalid IMHO.
I remain convinced, regardless of your personal reservations, that if the user needs an amp that can comfortably do all things with any music, regardless of complexity, the WAD 300B PP does exactly what is needed.
Remember, not everyone is interested in different amps to facilitate different types of music. For many of us that is totally impractical. Domestically, we just want one amp unit that will do the best for anything we want to listen to. In my view and having not heard anything that can better, I'll stick with my WAD 300B PP clone.
I've yet to hear something produced by you that has the overall versatility this amp has in terms of 'play anything you throw at it' so actually, your observation is invalid IMHO.
I remain convinced, regardless of your personal reservations, that if the user needs an amp that can comfortably do all things with any music, regardless of complexity, the WAD 300B PP does exactly what is needed.
Remember, not everyone is interested in different amps to facilitate different types of music. For many of us that is totally impractical. Domestically, we just want one amp unit that will do the best for anything we want to listen to. In my view and having not heard anything that can better, I'll stick with my WAD 300B PP clone.