Following on from from the Big 2-Way thread (link: http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... 64&start=0), I've decided to, once again, play PA speakers.
The big 2-way speakers are simply too big and heavy for day-to-day stuff: they come in at close to 40kg, which I have to lift to ~head height, to put them on stands.
I tried out my 12" coaxial monitors as mains for a small gig, and found them to be rather good, but wasn't happy with pushing them: they're rated around 250w a piece (full-range), and also their off-axis performance is all over the show, partly due to the very short horn inside the woofer.
So, I want something around the 12" driver size, and able to make lots of noise. I'd use the EV DH1a compression drivers from around 1kHz up on a big horn.
Cue the Fane Sovereign 12-500. 500w RMS power handling, and will take ~1kW peaks and not run out of excursion (using a small ported box tuned high). Its off axis response starts to diverge around 1kHz, so I'll be crossing over there. I've ordered some Tannoy i12 cabinets (single 12" cutout), since finding a cabinet suitable for the big compression driver & horn was proving difficult. The Tannoy cabs came up at £50 delivered, so I couldn't pass that up. They also have flying points (really big bolts to hang the speakers from the ceiling), so I'll be using those to attach the compression driver & horn combo.
I'll be adding pictures and doing some measurements once I've got this weekend out of the way - I've been asked to provide PA for a 6000sq.ft warehouse, so I'll be using every bit of kit I have. If anyone's interested, it'll be the Stancill Brewery 1st Anniversary celebration, and I'm pretty sure its free entry.
Chris
Slightly smaller 2-way
#2
Nobody so far?
Alright, here's some pictures of things.
Midbasses:
Really big horns, which load way down to 400Hz, not that I'll use them that low - I just wanted something that had 90 degree dispersion and a 2" throat.
Here's a quick snap of what's to come:
I currently have the big P.Audio horns sat on top of a spare 12" cabinet I had lying around. 800Hz LR4 crossover and some top-end lift on the compression driver, 16kHz 1.5 octave width +6dB.
Digital does make things easy.
The chipboard cabinet isn't doing the sound any favours, but I'm really pleased with how quickly I got something half-decent. I've ordered a load of T-nuts and things, so once they arrive I can put the Fane drivers in the Tannoy cabinets and see what's what.
Of course, there's an absolute crap-tonne of volume available here, and very little distortion. These compression drivers are something else, according to someone that spent a week with a bunch of them:
" I was hoping to find a lighter weight replacement with sound quality exceeding the ElectroVoice DH1A, but it simply was the best sounding driver in every metric I can think of: low distortion, extended bandwidth, high output capability, and durability with prolonged unit to unit consistency."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-wa ... ation.html
The Fanes have something going on in the kHz region, but steep crossovers and/or out-of-band notches will see to it, I'm sure.
Gotta run,
Chris
Alright, here's some pictures of things.
Midbasses:
Really big horns, which load way down to 400Hz, not that I'll use them that low - I just wanted something that had 90 degree dispersion and a 2" throat.
Here's a quick snap of what's to come:
I currently have the big P.Audio horns sat on top of a spare 12" cabinet I had lying around. 800Hz LR4 crossover and some top-end lift on the compression driver, 16kHz 1.5 octave width +6dB.
Digital does make things easy.
The chipboard cabinet isn't doing the sound any favours, but I'm really pleased with how quickly I got something half-decent. I've ordered a load of T-nuts and things, so once they arrive I can put the Fane drivers in the Tannoy cabinets and see what's what.
Of course, there's an absolute crap-tonne of volume available here, and very little distortion. These compression drivers are something else, according to someone that spent a week with a bunch of them:
" I was hoping to find a lighter weight replacement with sound quality exceeding the ElectroVoice DH1A, but it simply was the best sounding driver in every metric I can think of: low distortion, extended bandwidth, high output capability, and durability with prolonged unit to unit consistency."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-wa ... ation.html
The Fanes have something going on in the kHz region, but steep crossovers and/or out-of-band notches will see to it, I'm sure.
Gotta run,
Chris
-
Cressy Snr
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 10579
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:25 am
- Location: South Yorks.
#4
Earplugs all round if I'm doing any testing, Steve. I'm making money off being a sound tech, so I look after my ears as best I can.
Some of the stuff (nuts & bolts, connectors etc) have been dispatched, so I can start work again in a couple of days. Unlikely to do much before then, though I'll probably get some varnish and install a plywood speakOn terminal with a shiny finish to bring the grain out a bit. A touch of class
Chris
Some of the stuff (nuts & bolts, connectors etc) have been dispatched, so I can start work again in a couple of days. Unlikely to do much before then, though I'll probably get some varnish and install a plywood speakOn terminal with a shiny finish to bring the grain out a bit. A touch of class
Chris
#5
Well, they're up and running. Kinda. The processor, EQ, and amps are in a pile on the floor in my living room, but that's okay - housemates don't get back for another week.
So, there's 200w on the compression drivers courtesy of an old QSC amp, and a 1.2kW/ch Behringer amp takes care of the midbasses.
I plugged the measurement mic into the Behringer DEQ (digital equiliser do-dah) and let it run its Auto-EQ function, which is useful for getting things off to a start - it spots and eliminates nasties far faster than I.
Crossover is at 800Hz LR4, which leaves the compression driver with plenty of headroom, and the ~2kHz peak on the Fanes is very far down.
Having just thrown the settings in, this is ridiculously good. The midrange is very clean. Bass doesn't go particularly low (ports are tuned to ~85Hz atm), but kick drums can smack you in the chest if needbe. The high-tuned ports will be blockable to get the original 50Hz tuning on these cabinets, allowing them to be used in smaller venues without LF support.
Treble is very nice, though it took +12dB of EQ to get 16kHz - I didn't bother trying for 20kHz.
I'll play around with forcing 20kHz back in and see if I'm missing much. Something tells me 16kHz will be perfectly fine for PA use.
The 90-degree horns control dispersion well - walking off-axis they're pretty good until you reach the edge, and then output drops off very quickly. The result is very good imaging - I'm not throwing much treble at nearby walls. It also means mic feedback won't be much of a problem.
Going to keep on listening, so signing off for now.
Chris
So, there's 200w on the compression drivers courtesy of an old QSC amp, and a 1.2kW/ch Behringer amp takes care of the midbasses.
I plugged the measurement mic into the Behringer DEQ (digital equiliser do-dah) and let it run its Auto-EQ function, which is useful for getting things off to a start - it spots and eliminates nasties far faster than I.
Crossover is at 800Hz LR4, which leaves the compression driver with plenty of headroom, and the ~2kHz peak on the Fanes is very far down.
Having just thrown the settings in, this is ridiculously good. The midrange is very clean. Bass doesn't go particularly low (ports are tuned to ~85Hz atm), but kick drums can smack you in the chest if needbe. The high-tuned ports will be blockable to get the original 50Hz tuning on these cabinets, allowing them to be used in smaller venues without LF support.
Treble is very nice, though it took +12dB of EQ to get 16kHz - I didn't bother trying for 20kHz.
I'll play around with forcing 20kHz back in and see if I'm missing much. Something tells me 16kHz will be perfectly fine for PA use.
The 90-degree horns control dispersion well - walking off-axis they're pretty good until you reach the edge, and then output drops off very quickly. The result is very good imaging - I'm not throwing much treble at nearby walls. It also means mic feedback won't be much of a problem.
Going to keep on listening, so signing off for now.
Chris
#6
Made some tweeter stands.
Decided to use the 60-degree horns for now - the 90 degree ones have a very sudden transition from driver to horn throat, which will give a lot of diffraction, which becomes audible at higher levels (see Geddes' paper). The 60-degree horns are much nicer in that regard.
They'll be used for a gig on Tuesday - rock band followed by DJs. Definitely going to need some subwoofers there, so I'll convert the old Deltamax cabinets for LF use by blocking the tweeter holes.
Really hope their mains supply is feeling clever. There'll be 4 amplifiers each with 8A breakers, plus a bunch of smaller stuff and instrument amps. The amplifiers might well end up running close to the ragged edge, knowing what DJs are like.
Chris
Decided to use the 60-degree horns for now - the 90 degree ones have a very sudden transition from driver to horn throat, which will give a lot of diffraction, which becomes audible at higher levels (see Geddes' paper). The 60-degree horns are much nicer in that regard.
They'll be used for a gig on Tuesday - rock band followed by DJs. Definitely going to need some subwoofers there, so I'll convert the old Deltamax cabinets for LF use by blocking the tweeter holes.
Really hope their mains supply is feeling clever. There'll be 4 amplifiers each with 8A breakers, plus a bunch of smaller stuff and instrument amps. The amplifiers might well end up running close to the ragged edge, knowing what DJs are like.
Chris
#7
Quick picture from the gig.
The amp driving the 12" Fanes has been sent off for repairs - it shut down when playing quietly!
Fortunately the other NU6000DSP I have is playing happily now, so that'll run midbasses and a big Peavey amp bridged will do LF duties until I get my amp fixed.
At the end of the gig I played some loud music and pushed into the limiters. I was rewarded with the warm driver smell that we all love. Those Fanes are 1000w peak rated (500w continuous), but the amp can (and will) put out ~1200w continuously if you hit the stops.
I have to say, though, it was LOUD.
I'm amazed at what I can get out of these little boxes, and can't wait to build subs to compliment them. Still haven't settled on a sub design yet, though. I want small, low, and loud, but Hoffman won't allow it.
Chris
The amp driving the 12" Fanes has been sent off for repairs - it shut down when playing quietly!
Fortunately the other NU6000DSP I have is playing happily now, so that'll run midbasses and a big Peavey amp bridged will do LF duties until I get my amp fixed.
At the end of the gig I played some loud music and pushed into the limiters. I was rewarded with the warm driver smell that we all love. Those Fanes are 1000w peak rated (500w continuous), but the amp can (and will) put out ~1200w continuously if you hit the stops.
I have to say, though, it was LOUD.
I'm amazed at what I can get out of these little boxes, and can't wait to build subs to compliment them. Still haven't settled on a sub design yet, though. I want small, low, and loud, but Hoffman won't allow it.
Chris
-
Dave the bass
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 12276
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:36 pm
- Location: NW Kent, Darn Sarf innit.
#8
I've played to audiences that size before, 'character-building' I was told by the management. 
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
-
Dave the bass
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 12276
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:36 pm
- Location: NW Kent, Darn Sarf innit.
#11
Think Dave makes most of us smile.
Fortunately this time I was on the correct side of the mixing desk. Happy to stay there, unless I'm mixing from side-of-stage and there's a drummer about. Had to acquire earplugs.
Thinking about it, the 1200w is the 8ohm rating of the amp. It was 2000w between the two Fanes, hitting the limiters and staying there. No wonder they got toasty.
They survived, though, and still sound great. Properly built, apparently.
Think I'll be taking more care in future.
Chris
Fortunately this time I was on the correct side of the mixing desk. Happy to stay there, unless I'm mixing from side-of-stage and there's a drummer about. Had to acquire earplugs.
Thinking about it, the 1200w is the 8ohm rating of the amp. It was 2000w between the two Fanes, hitting the limiters and staying there. No wonder they got toasty.
They survived, though, and still sound great. Properly built, apparently.
Think I'll be taking more care in future.
Chris
-
shane
- Social outcast
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:09 pm
- Location: Kept in a cool dry place.
#12
I've been laughing out loud for years....chris661 wrote:Think Dave makes most of us smile.
The world looks so different after learning science. For example, trees are made of air, primarily. When they are burned, they go back to air, and in their flaming heat is released the flaming heat of the Sun which was bound in to convert air into tree.
#13 Fane Colossus neodymium for sound and saving weight
I had also purchased the Sovereign 500 drivers and then I heard the Colossus Neodymium 12" drivers. Simply no comparison - and the Colossus are much lighter (would be good if the speaker has to be transportable). I am using the Colossus now on my home system - outperforming any other 12" (JBL, Fane, Eminence, AE, Jensen) that I have ever had. The difference at home has more to do with the "density" of tone than more detail or extension. The Sovereign sound was more "faded".
Mine are in aperiodic cabinets and I generally cross them over at 80 Hz.
Mine are in aperiodic cabinets and I generally cross them over at 80 Hz.
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
#14
Bet those Neo drivers weren't cheap, though - gotta remember I'm a university student on a budget. I spend money where I think its necessary, and I think these are a fair compromise.
What were you using for the HF on your 12" driver comparison?
Chris
What were you using for the HF on your 12" driver comparison?
Chris