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ed
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#16

Post by ed »

IslandPink wrote:That is a shame.
However that alcove bit behing the speaker in the pic is quite confined and doesn't look great for OB .
in the last 10 years I've lost count of the people that have said 'why don't you try OB'.........you've just paraphrased my response

but I had to try....

crossover is exactly as shown on the mls....other people are using this point with success, but not in my room.

My problem is that I'm asking a big driver to deliver in the area that I'm used to working with 8" fostex and Seas and markaudio..i.e 80-900, guitars and vocals and horns etc...it's a big ask for a 12"..and this one doesn't cut the mustard without overpowering the bass.

and the beyma is not half as sparkly as I was expecting...time to move on.

with what I've learned of OB recently I suspect the beyma might work in my room with a 3 way and with a bottom end driver of much less efficiency than I've got here. Only way I can see of attenuating the big driver is in a box as per my original design/plan. The above scenario(3 way) could quite easily be achieved with a monacor or dayton AMT instead of the beyma, and save a packet......still, fortunately OB was not my goal.

edit:
as a complete aside, it's given me an opportunity to run the new audiotester measurement system alongside clio. So far the audiotester has proved a nightmare to get running, mainly because of irregularities with the USB drivers for the steinberg audio interface. All the audiotester calibration examples relate to cheap stereo jack soundcards, which doesn't give a nod to measurement mics. Consequently calibration has been truly hit and miss so far. I can see why clio costs now, cuts out all this guess work...I will be hanging on to the XP machine a while longer now. Audiotester also adds to the price of experience.

for those that were interested in the audiotester system....the calibration procedure involves connecting the line in to the line out and measuring voltages etc, all very good, but as soon as you plug in the condensor mic and switch on the phantom power you are using a different gain/preamp setup...can't be right, can it?...I think I need to converse with the audiotester people. Watch this space.
Last edited by ed on Sat May 24, 2014 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#17

Post by Nick »

May also been worth having the Lf driver closer to the floor, but given you were happy with the bass, maybe thats not worth thinking about.
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#18

Post by Cressy Snr »

ed wrote:

and the beyma is not half as sparkly as I was expecting...time to move on.
Hmmm...that's an interesting finding Ed.
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#19

Post by steve s »

I too am very suprised too Ed, and a little sad that after your hearing mine resulted in you buying them, before you give up on them they need a little more running, my view is the beymas will play what they are given without adding anything. And i do mean without adding anything
Before you give up them it may be worth trying mine in place and possibly one of my amps to see where attention is needed, i can see no reason you have not achieved the performance i have from them, as that is what inspired you to buy them
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#20

Post by ed »

thanks Steve....

no worries whatsoever, what inspired me was a pair of Heils many moons ago, yours reminded me. I've done more than a reasonable amount of testing now and measured and A/B tested against known quantities.

They have had many hours running and I'm pretty certain what I'm looking for will not arrive with more time on them. Bottom line is they are not for me.

Further, I now know that my room is not a good place for OBs either.

Again, thanks for the concern.
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#21

Post by IslandPink »

Ed, do the Beymas not have the qualities you need when played alone, either with or without their high-pass filter ?
Is that something like a 3rd-order high-pass at 1/1.2 kHz you have there?
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#22

Post by Paul Barker »

Ed if nobody else wants them I would take the cabinets. Don't break them up yet.

But anybody else at all, please let them have them.

thank you?

Paul

p.s. I can see that they wouldn't work, but I thought you had cracked the domestic acceptability of OB's, just a shame the sound didn't match the looks. I'll give it a shot just in case. I have some 12" drivers to go in which you heard at Owsten on the plasterboard baffles.
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#23

Post by chris661 »

Hmmmm...

Ed, try sticking a pillow behind each 12".

My suspicion is that the extra energy from the rear of the cone is boosting the wide-band SPL heard from the woofer, making the tweeter too quiet in comparison.

If you do decide to get rid of the Beymas, I'd love to give them a try in my PA speakers, unless, of course, anyone else fancies them for their own project...

All the best

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#24

Post by ed »

Hi Mark

it's an offset 2nd order(not identical hi and lo pass) at 1200hz with a heavy zobel. But I've a load of measurements either side and with and without the correction..no major differences see below

@Paul

they are yours, but you'll have to arrange collection...I'm away for the next 2 weeks.

@Chris

Pillows were the first port of call

they have to go in the reflex box first but if that doesn't work they will be on ebay..about £550

......................................

One of the tests I have on any new set up is a panning drum kit, 20 bars hard left, middle and hard right. I have this on a master at various bit depths and resolutions. One thing I noticed a long time ago is simple resolution of various bits of the drum kit, particularly the high hat and cymbals.

failure means the hats and cymbals ssshhh and tissshhhh
success means I can hear tizz when the wave decays

I'm sure you know what I mean

here is an example which I found recently to save putting up my wave file....It is imperative you listen with headphones...

http://www.easyeartraining.com/learn/pe ... 2-cymbals/

samples are halfway down the page under the homework heading

the beymas/fanes tissshhh in my set up
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#25

Post by Paul Barker »

Thanks Ed, when you get back, Monday or Tuesday evening after work would suit me I am usually in Beverly those days.
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#26

Post by ed »

well I'm well and truly embarrassed. Chris was right on the money with his diagnosis. I had first tried pillows and even put a panel on the back when I was first testing, but nothing made any difference. Before dismantling I thought I'd have one last fiddle with them and put a large bean bag in the back of each speaker, squeezed in against the driver.

wow...what a startling difference. The bass boom has gone. The image has focussed. The whole presentation is more balanced and the tizz has appeared on the top end of the drum kit. I was aware of room influence, having a bit of experience with treatment and reflection taming, but I wasn't prepared for this. The simple blocking of rear wave has caused major changes in frequency areas that aren't remotely connected to the bass driver...wow

I suppose this has taken the OB out of the strict OB paradigm as the baffle is effectively operating in 2D space, but it sure bodes well for the upcoming reflex box.

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#27

Post by pre65 »

Glad to see you are going forward again. :)
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#28

Post by IslandPink »

Cripes !!
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#29

Post by ed »

IslandPink wrote:Ed, do the Beymas not have the qualities you need when played alone, either with or without their high-pass filter ?
sorry Mark, I didn't respond to this.....If I'd done this I might have been alerted to the ear deception a bit sooner. I obviously ran hi and lo independently when I was doing the MLS measurements but I didn't think to actually listen to some music with the isolated drivers......mmmm

as Al would say 'much to learn there is'
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